STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
This week's closure of the airspace over El Paso brought us news about lasers. A U.S. official told NPR the Pentagon authorized Customs and Border Protection to use a counter-drone laser to shoot down some flying object. The government said the object was a drone. NPR's source said maybe it was a drone or maybe one of those shiny party balloons. Pop. But let's talk about the laser, used to shoot whatever it was. Thom Shanker thinks a lot about military tech. He's a former New York Times Pentagon correspondent now directing the Project for Media and National Security at George Washington University. Thom, good morning.
THOM SHANKER: Good morning, Steve. Always an honor to be here. Thank you.
INSKEEP: What sort of laser weapons does the government have?
SHANKER: Well, they've been playing with these for 50 years, but the last decade, real accelerated focus on counter-drone lasers and microwaves, too, because the rise of the drones in ISIS and Iran and now in the war in Ukraine. The one we're talking about that was most likely used outside of El Paso, it's mounted on sort of a wheeled vehicle. It has a radar, and it can send a focused laser beam at an enemy drone.
INSKEEP: How does it shoot the drone down then? It just burns it out?
SHANKER: It burns a hole through it, exactly, which is why either testing them or actually using them near a major civilian airport brings such incredible risks.
INSKEEP: If an airplane were to just flash across the path of one of these lasers while it's being fired, I mean, just there for a fraction of a second, could that be dangerous for the airplane?
SHANKER: If it's strong enough to bring down a drone, it's certainly strong enough to damage a commercial airliner, general aviation, an aircraft carrying freight. And the Pentagon's also experimenting with microwaves which fry a drone, and that would fry the cockpit instruments of a civilian aircraft. So it's an important tool. It's a needed capability, but you don't want Keystone Cops with lasers operating around civilian airports.
INSKEEP: Just a pause for a moment. You said microwaves that fry a drone. Do you mean focusing microwaves in such a way that it burns out the inside of a drone the way that I might burn a meal by leaving it in the microwave too long?
SHANKER: That's exactly right, with the meal being the wiring, the GPS, all the communications gear aboard a drone. It just fries it right out. Exactly. And just imagine, Steve, what that would do to a cockpit of a commercial airliner.
INSKEEP: Are these kinds of directed-energy weapons, which I think is the overall term, getting to be a big part of the Pentagon's arsenal?
SHANKER: You know, they've been really accelerating both money - and, you know, a plan without a budget is a fantasy. Directed weapons, whether lasers or microwaves, are no longer a fantasy. They are entering the arsenal in bigger and bigger numbers every year because the threat is growing.
INSKEEP: Does it make sense to you that Customs and Border Protection would have access to a laser as opposed to the United States military?
SHANKER: Well, to the extent that the border is a new front in American security, then the Pentagon has for a long time shared its weapons with other parts of government. But the need for communications, clearly, whatever the scenario outside of El Paso, Steve, the Pentagon and DHS were not communing very - were not communicating very well with the FAA, which prompted this sudden surprise shutdown of a major commercial airport. Also, you know, the military has to train like it fights. The training is important. But where does it do it, and how? And how do the people who are supposed to keep us safe not put us at risk?
INSKEEP: Aside from every other aspect of this, I'm baffled by the 10-day closure that was then amended to just be a few hours. Any idea what happened there?
SHANKER: Well, one can only guess that the FAA was trying to secure the entire area, and it sounds like they didn't even have enough information to make a smart decision. Once people began talking to each other, explaining what the mission or their training was, the FAA said, OK, this sounds like a one-and-done. Whether it was a cartel drone or a party balloon, we can now reopen the airport.
INSKEEP: Thom Shanker directs the Project for Media and National Security at George Washington University. Thom, thanks so much.
SHANKER: Thank you so much, Steve. Bye-bye.
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