SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Neil deGrasse Tyson begins his latest book with an arresting first sentence.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: (Reading) Ever since childhood, I've wanted to be abducted by aliens.
SIMON: Well, if aliens are reading our books down here, they can't ask to take back to their civilization anyone who knows more about us, them and the universe we share than Neil deGrasse Tyson. Of course, he's director of the Hayden Planetarium, the recipient of some two dozen honorary doctorates, the Distinguished Public Service Medal from NASA, also has an asteroid named after him - his new book, "Take Me To Your Leader: Perspectives On Your First Alien Encounter." Thanks so much for being with us.
TYSON: I'm delighted. I'm happy to shed whatever light of physics and science that it can say about - on this topic.
SIMON: You offer some bracingly practical advice. For example, if approached by an alien, don't shake hands. Why?
TYSON: Well, no, it's just - don't grab the thing that might be extended forward of the alien body, 'cause you don't know what part of the alien anatomy that is. To grab it and shake it - it could have consequences beyond your expectations. Not only that, shaking hands is not even a custom that's worldwide, right? In China, they don't shake hands when - unless they're meeting someone from the West. So to presume that an alien from another planet has a similar custom as you is just hubristic.
SIMON: I mean, you write - I'm going to quote you, "the level of ego and emotional centricity in the human species knows no bounds."
TYSON: Knows no bounds, that is for sure. I mean, and it manifests in ways you might not even think. I mean, even on the level of how we've imagined aliens in our greatest tapestry of imagination - Hollywood - only occasionally is the alien form highly inventive. Most of the time, it's humanoid. It's got a head, two eyes, nose, mouth, ears, neck, shoulders, arms, legs, torso. That is ego, because we're presuming that we're some kind of model form for what aliens might look like from another planet, another star system, another galaxy, when it would have no DNA in common with us at all and, more likely than even that, it would have no DNA.
SIMON: So if they showed up and say, take me to your leader, I'm going to guess that a large group of people on this planet would say, you mean Neil deGrasse Tyson?
TYSON: No (laughter). I'd be delighted to be among the first to greet the aliens.
SIMON: What would you tell them about us? You know, what's your elevator pitch?
TYSON: I would have ready in my pocket - and I go over this in the book. There's a chapter called Alien Science and Technology. If you want them to respect you, to believe that you're a worthy living species in this universe, start showing them some science and math, each of which are the languages of the universe. And there's certain simple math representations you can construct, like the Pythagorean theorem. You can do that geometrically, prime numbers. You can show them the periodic table of elements. They won't know the symbols you're using, but the organization of that table, that's universal.
But if they came asking for a leader, no, I would not take it to the White House. I don't think that would be productive. They'll probably want to know where Taylor Swift is or Oprah, or someone who they've seen radio signals of before they arrive, 'cause our radio signals emanate - they leak from Earth. And an alien that's good at decoding will see all manner of pop culture figures and presume that's who we worship.
SIMON: So I have this question - why would other civilizations have to send anyone to Earth if they were curious about us, because couldn't they just find out whatever they want by listening to us, watching us and maybe sending something the size of a golf ball down here?
TYSON: Yeah. That's an excellent question. There's the limit of that question, which is, why should we believe that aliens think we are so interesting and fascinating that they'd want to anally probe us, OK? I mean (laughter)...
SIMON: Well, I was trying to avoid positing that one, but OK.
TYSON: OK. I'll be - that's...
SIMON: You're Dr. Tyson. You can do it.
TYSON: (Laughter) That's a limit of that exercise when you ask, how interesting do we think we are to aliens? I'm head of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City. The American Museum of Natural History is our parent organization. So I have many colleagues who are in zoological fields. They study insects or birds or mammals or aquatic mammals. So our species has shown deep curiosity with other members of our species. So I guess it's not an impossible thought that they would see us as a more interesting species than others. However, we don't have the biggest brains in the world. If they judge that brains are important, they'd check the whales first.
We can't fly. Flying is important. They look at the condor. We can't regenerate limbs. That's a pretty useful task to have biologically. They'd be studying the newts or the crustaceans. So to put us at the top of some list that would be the object of affection and curiosity of aliens is once again our ego speaking for ourselves.
SIMON: Would visiting aliens actually be able to communicate with us any more than we can really communicate with - let's say - a hedgehog?
TYSON: You're asking more excellent questions, because - let's not even say hedgehogs. Let's say other primates. We're a primate - other primates, very close to us genetically. Has anyone ever - maybe other than Jane Goodall - had a meaningful conversation with a chimp or a gorilla? Maybe some rudimentary I'm hungry or that's an apple or a banana, but you're not teaching them long division. And they're nearly identical DNA to us - call it 98% identical. So that 2% represents everything we value in our intellect relative to that species. The fact that we say let's look for other intelligent life in the universe comes with a big assumption that we would be viewed as intelligent by other alien species.
SIMON: I guess we'd be lucky if they thought we were at least cute.
TYSON: (Laughter) I have to agree with you, because then they might protect us and not harm us. And I comment in the last pages of the book that if they come here and they want to make us their pets, that could be our best option. Think about how we treat our pets. In the United States alone, we spend $150 billion on our dogs and cats. And the federal government spends 7% of that on tending to, feeding and housing the homeless. So our priorities are clear. We treat our pets better than we treat other humans - humans in need, that is, of course. So an alien who wants to make us their pet, if they treat us the way we treat our pets, that's a good deal. I would take it if I were you.
SIMON: Yeah.
TYSON: Because most other scenarios we've imagined don't bode well for the side of that equation that has the lesser technology. And in that instance, that would be us.
SIMON: Neil deGrasse Tyson, his new book "Take Me To Your Leader: Perspectives On Your First," - (laughter) I just noticed first, as opposed to...
TYSON: (Laughter).
SIMON: ...Only alien encounter. Thank you for spending time with our earthly concerns.
TYSON: Thank you for seeing me as your conduit to the cosmos. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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