SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
This next story is about a book about death. But wait, wait, wait, wait. Stick with me because I really promise - a new novel about the grim reaper walking among us is one of the best, most moving books I have read in years.
BEN REEVES: Travis Smith is the personification of death, which sounds really grim and morbid, but it's actually a very life-affirming kind of book. It's very rich with life and nature.
DETROW: That's Ben Reeves. The book "Everything Was Beautiful And Nothing Hurt" is his publishing debut. It tells the story of Travis, who outwardly appears to be a normal guy living a boring life in an empty apartment, and how he slowly becomes a little too attached to the people around him.
REEVES: His job is just to spend time with people in their last few moments of life. He will comfort them and listen to their stories and make them feel at peace before he takes them into whatever follows next, which we never get to see in the book. And we just get to see all these - hopefully beautiful - vignettes of all these different people from different walks of life as Travis spends time with them.
DETROW: I love how carefully you constructed the rules around him, his work, his world, how he exists. You explain some things. You hint at other things. And there's a lot that you just leave unsaid or unexplained. And I'm wondering how you approach that as you wrote this book. Did you kind of dial the meter one way or another, or was it easy to land on this middle ground of, I'm just not going to explain some things?
REEVES: Yeah, that's interesting. I don't generally like it in a book when they explain every single thing about how something works because we know deep, deep, deep down, it's not real. So any answer I give is ultimately not going to be satisfying. I'd much rather we - it's left to our imagination. We see certain things. We see that he's very, very in touch with the world around him and with nature. He almost seems to have a kind of omniscience, but I never wanted to explain it because I just think that can almost take away rather than add to the book.
DETROW: So we meet Travis as he's making some of his rounds and sitting with people and being with people as we die. But the plot really starts moving when he starts to grow attached to two people who live across the hall from him. Tell us about Dalia and Layla and what it is about them that draws Travis...
REEVES: Yeah.
DETROW: ...Into their lives.
REEVES: Yeah, so Dalia is a midwife, and she's a single mother of two kids. And it's against Travis' better judgment because you can imagine, being death, you would not want to have close relationships with anybody. He takes his job very seriously and with a lot of respect, but he doesn't make friends because every single person he ever meets, he's going to watch them die. But against his better judgment, he just can't help but get sucked into this little family that live across the hall, especially the little girl, Layla. She takes such an interest in Travis she invites him to, like, her birthday party and things like that. And I think what he's really drawn to is how normal and simple and beautiful their lives are. They're not extraordinary. They're - I mean, they are in very subtle ways, but it's a normal life. And I think Travis really covets that because he has such a difficult job.
DETROW: Yeah. There are these moments also throughout the book that aren't necessarily about death, but they're about life and they're about details. You know, Travis seems to have this omnipotent view of the world. And it's almost like you zoom the camera lens around, and he thinks and focuses on the cobwebs or an old toaster or an old brittle Christmas tree or a family of mice that live inside the walls. And by pointing them out in such vivid detail, it shows them as signs of lives being lived.
REEVES: Absolutely, yeah. That was actually really, really fun to write because I think that thinking about death a little bit more can actually make you really pay attention and think clearly about your life. I feel like we don't talk about death enough because it's scary, but that's obviously why we should talk about it. There was a moment shortly before I wrote this book where my little boy was choking on some food. And it was a terrifying moment. And, you know, I was so scared. Luckily, my wife hooked her finger down his throat and got the food out. But shortly after that, I gave him a bath and I broke down into tears.
DETROW: Yeah.
REEVES: And they were tears of relief and gratitude and clarity because I realized in that moment what I could have lost. And I really believe that just thinking about death that a little bit more, especially for a story where we're safe - you know? - it can just enrich every single day because you know in the back of your mind that's coming.
DETROW: There's a whole other alternate world where you're doing that bath time and you're thinking about the next thing and you're annoyed...
REEVES: Yeah.
DETROW: ...At just life with little kids and you're not appreciating the moment, but in that moment you...
REEVES: One hundred percent.
DETROW: ...Deeply appreciated it.
REEVES: Yeah. And I would walk to work and really try and see the world through Travis' eyes and try and see all those details that you would just normally miss or just normally walk straight past without a second thought. Probably one of the clearest and happiest times of my life, writing from his point of view.
DETROW: Yeah. Now, this is your first published book, right?
REEVES: Yeah, yeah.
DETROW: But you've been writing for a long time.
REEVES: Yeah, about 20 years.
DETROW: Yeah. And you've written about writing on your website. And in one of your posts, you wrote this...
(Reading) I've written several books on my way to this point, and now I understand what I'm here to offer - radical meaning as vibrantly as I can offer it.
Could you tell us what you meant by that?
REEVES: Yeah. I think we're starved of a bit of meaning these days. And it's - you know, it's all well and good me saying that, but I do. I think we're all kind of looking for meaning. And sometimes we're looking for it in the wrong places. Maybe we want more money or more status or things like that. And I think one thing I'd really like to do with all my books, and particularly this one, is to explore actually where meaning is truly found. And very often it's - we've already actually got it. We just need to look a little bit closer.
DETROW: Yeah. An earlier version of this book won the Bath Novel Award in 2024, and at that point it was titled "Dance Of The Mayflies." When did you realize this was going to be the book?
REEVES: I think quite early. There was always a doubt in my mind, like, oh, this - maybe it'll never be published. You know, I've been doing it for 20 years. That was a very strong possibility. But I knew in my heart. I was like, no, this is good. And you know when it's a good one because you think even if no one did ever read this, I think this is good. And that's when you sort of have achieved a kind of magic. And actually, the big moment for me wasn't getting an agent or getting published. It was winning that competition because that was the first time ever in my life that I gained some kind of recognition for my writing, which was beautiful.
DETROW: I would like to end this conversation with the idea that you end the book on. You have this beautiful, short, little epilogue, and I'm wondering if you could read some of that for us.
REEVES: Yeah, I'd love to. So it's not a spoiler. It's just a nice little moment at the end. It's called a 20-minute gift.
(Reading) Imagine for one moment that you're in the future. Your future. These are your last moments before death. You're in your own bed, surrounded by flowers and cards and people you love. And there in the corner of the room, like a shadow, is where you finally meet me. Now, imagine I give you a final gift. You're allowed to go back. Just for 20 minutes, you're allowed to go back to the exact moment where you're hearing these words. You're back. Here you are. This is your 20-minute gift. Do not waste it. You can't change your life in 20 minutes, so don't try. No, do the thing that you'll wish on your deathbed you could have done one last time. Something precious. Kiss your partner. Play with your children. Wander in the world. You have 19 minutes remaining.
DETROW: That's Ben Reeves, the author of the new book "Everything Was Beautiful And Nothing Hurt." Thank you so much for talking to us.
REEVES: Thank you so much, Scott. It's been a pleasure.
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