Moore: We start this Tuesday edition of Ozarks at Large with our friend, the editor in chief of the Arkansas Advocate, Andrew DeMillo. Andrew, thank you so much for being with us today.
DeMillo: Thank you for having me again.
Moore: We are here in the midst of Sunshine Week as we think about the Freedom of Information Act and its legacy here in Arkansas. You recently wrote a column talking about the approaching 60th anniversary of the passage of the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act. Maybe let's start by talking about this legacy and why it matters here.
DeMillo: This is the second day of Sunshine Week — the national commemoration of the importance of public records and transparent government. So it seemed like the perfect time to talk about the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act. Next year is going to be the 60th anniversary of Winthrop Rockefeller, who was governor then, signing it in 1967. This is really one of something that Rockefeller talked about after his term — one of his crowning achievements, which, if you look at some of the things that Rockefeller did as governor, that's saying quite a lot. It really changed not just government in Arkansas, but also politics, and it was kind of an end to the good old boy system in a lot of ways — by having in law the requirements of what's a government record, how it has to be provided, public meetings, and the legacy of the FOIA.
One of the things I wrote about is that whenever we talk about FOIA, it's always discussed as a reporter's law. And it's not. This is a law that protects the public's access to the government that they pay for. One of the things I cited in my column was the Arkansas Democrat newspaper back then had a headline that effectively said a Freedom of Information Act is for everyone, not just the press. That's a headline that I really wish everyone would click and just keep in their pocket — but especially legislators, when we look to next year's session. Because the history of FOIA in recent years has been that there have been efforts to try to scale it back in various ways. Some have been successful, some not so successful. A lot of times when there's discussion on it, it's framed as though the only people speaking up about it are press groups or media organizations.
We saw an example of how that's not the case three years ago, when there was an effort to really dramatically scale back the FOI law that would have shielded a lot of documents about state government from the public's view. The backlash we heard was not just from press groups. It was from grassroots organizations, especially conservative groups, who were saying this is the law we like — this is our way of being able to keep an eye on what government is doing. I think that was a surprise for some legislators who hadn't realized that. They still shielded a lot of documents dealing with the governor's travel and governor's security, but it really prevented what could have been just a massive black hole in Arkansas's FOI law from being enacted.
Moore: You talk about — and I'm glad you brought this up — that FOIA is not just for reporters, although we do use this quite a lot, but it's for the residents of Arkansas. What advice would you give to people who are citizens who just want to better understand the inner workings of their government through using the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act?
DeMillo: We actually have an explainer on our website today. We do a series called Arkansas Explained, and we have one that's basically how to use the Arkansas FOI law. There's some great advice in there. One thing I definitely would recommend to everyone: download a copy of the guide to the FOI that is published in conjunction between the attorney general's office and various groups, including the Arkansas Press Association. It's updated after every legislative session and it's really a great guide to be able to see what changes, what's exempt, what's not exempt.
One of the main things is: if someone tells you they can't release a record, get it in writing and ask them to explain what law they're basing this on. This is something we do whenever we make FOIA requests — we include in there, if you're exempting or redacting anything, please cite the specific exemption; please tell me what appeals process there is. It's very easy for some people to just think something is exempt, but get the receipts — get them to show you where it is.
Definitely study up on the FOI, and also keep plugged in on changes that happen in the legislature. I think that's one of the most important things when there's discussion about FOI — people need to hear from everyday Arkansans. Policy makers and legislators need to hear how they're able to use it, so they see that this is really a tool for the public. A lot of times it's portrayed in a negative light, and they don't really see that their constituents rely on this to keep tabs on government and also to see how taxpayer dollars are being spent. I think everyone has an interest in that.
Moore: Speaking about the media and the public, let's turn our focus to Arkansas Public Television. Late last week, we saw the Public Television Commission hold a meeting, one of their quarterly meetings, and something they noted is that for the first time in their remembrance, there was a call for public comment. Let's talk about what the public comment was about and what came from that meeting.
DeMillo: Arkansas was poised to become the first state in the country to cut off ties with PBS. This is tied to what's been happening with funding for public broadcasting, but also complaints from Republican officeholders about PBS and about programming over the years. They were moving toward doing this starting on July 1. There had been a really big pushback, including a campaign that had been started and headed by two former first ladies of Arkansas, Barbara Pryor and Gay White. They had really been preparing for this, and you even had the CEO of national PBS coming down and making the case. What they've been saying was, put the brakes on this — at least put the pause on this — to have more of a discussion, because a lot of the people speaking at this meeting were people who have watched PBS for years. And importantly, a lot of them are donors, saying, "I'm not going to donate to Arkansas Public Television if it breaks off from PBS and no longer has programming that people have grown up on," ranging from Clifford the Big Red Dog to Ken Burns documentaries.
It was really a surprising turnout. Like you said, they weren't used to having public comment at all, and public comment of this size and scope — they had an overflow room. They had people showing up with signs, really making the case, and they really put all the stops out urging them to do this. I was actually surprised to see the outcome: they did vote to temporarily delay this — to put the pause on this — for 180 days. The big question is, what happens next? Is this a long-term reprieve, or is this just kicking the can down the road? I think the next few weeks and months are going to be very crucial in seeing what happens with discussions on this.
When they were hearing from people who rely on PBS — teachers, parents — it's become such a part of their lives. And they really were very skeptical about the plans that the state has for state-based programming and the idea that it would replace these very well-known, nationally known, well-produced programs. You heard a lot of that skepticism there.
Moore: Final topic: Applications have opened for the fourth year of the Education Freedom Accounts through the state of Arkansas Department of Education. This past year is the first year that this voucher program has been available to basically any and every Arkansas student. What changes are we expecting to see from year three to year four of this program, and what are some of the comments and concerns that you've heard from legislators?
DeMillo: This is going to be probably the biggest topic, or one of the biggest topics, when the legislature comes back in session next month for its fiscal session. A lot of the concerns are still the same. A big concern is what impact this is going to have on the state's public schools, and a larger concern about what impact this is going to have on the budget. The governor's budget for the coming year proposes spending basically the same amount that was effectively spent this past year on the voucher program, but also sets aside another $70 million in surplus money that they could use if there's additional growth. The concern is: how much bigger is this going to get? Are they going to keep setting aside money? And what does this ultimately do to the state's public school system?
You and I have talked about this before — the discussion we hear is not just objections from Democrats, but you hear from some rural Republicans around the state, too, in areas that may or may not benefit as much from this, who are worried they're going to end up seeing more of an impact on the schools in their district. We're going to be watching to see what happens with enrollment, what happens with the funding, and what happens if the $70 million they set aside isn't enough.
There's also been discussion about keeping guardrails on how the money is spent, especially money that's not necessarily used for tuition but might be used for things like equipment and laptops — making sure it's being used correctly and wisely and not for things that are really kind of peripheral education-type things. The state says they do have guardrails there and they're keeping an eye on that. But I think that is one of the other big concerns that you're going to see come up when the vouchers come up for discussion.
Moore: My final thing for you: Sunday was the Oscars. I know that you're a big fan of media and film at large. Do you think One Battle After Another deserved best picture?
DeMillo: I'm going to be ashamed to say this because I'm a Paul Thomas Anderson fan and I love all his movies. I have not seen One Battle After Another. I'm sorry. I'm glad he did win, because I think There Will Be Blood deserved an Oscar — it's kind of like Martin Scorsese getting it for The Departed. But personally, I loved Sinners. I thought it was such a great movie, especially if you love the blues and the history of the Delta. Ryan Coogler is just an amazing director. Michael B. Jordan winning for best actor was really great to see. But yeah, I tried to catch up on all my Oscar movies and fell behind on the most important one, I think.
Moore: Yeah, I've been a big PTA fan for a long time and I've missed both Licorice Pizza and this one. So I look forward to having a night where I'm not putting kids down for bed and I can actually catch up on some PTA. Maybe that'll come eventually. Maybe not tomorrow, though.
DeMillo: The three-hour runtime makes it difficult.
Moore: Absolutely. You can always catch up on Andrew DeMillo's team's work at ArkansasAdvocate.com. He's the editor in chief there. Andrew, thank you as always for your time.
DeMillo: Thank you.
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