In her latest novel, Headlights, CJ Leede wastes no time letting readers know she's again setting them up for terror. People are waking up on a highway, naked. They don't know how they got there — and that's the least of their concerns. Leede's third novel continues the unsettling path of her debut Maeve Fly and the follow-up American Rapture. Her work has been recognized with the Golden Poppy Octavia E. Butler Award and the Splatterpunk Award, and earned a Bram Stoker Award nomination. Headlights will be in bookstores June 9, and CJ Leede will be in Fayetteville on June 22 at the Vault as a guest of Pearl's Books. Kyle Kellams spoke with Leede about what draws her to horror and how she builds a novel from the road up.
CJ Leede: For the listeners here, to give you an idea of what kind of book this is — they wake up, like you said, with no idea of how they got where they are. Their feet are bloody. They've walked many miles and they're naked. Other than wearing the skin of someone they've allegedly never met, and they each have a hair tied around their tongues. And we learned that in the first 10 pages. Not a spoiler, but how do ideas like that come to you?
I'm just someone who's always had nightmares and I've always been a little bit afraid of things, but also unable to look away from dark things. And I think that's probably a common thread for horror authors, thriller authors, true crime authors — all these people. These ideas sometimes come into my mind like, oh my God, that would be the worst thing ever, unlike 50 levels. That one just sort of appeared one day and I was like, that's messed up. And I rolled with it.
Kellams: I don't think anyone that's part of this conversation would ever want to wake up naked along the side of a road, not knowing how they got there. But for some reason, the detail in this that got me the most is the single hair tied around the tongue. I don't know what it is that makes that worse than the other things.
Leede: I think that's sort of the trick and the fun with not just horror but with any book — trying to find, we can only write so many stories, right? And everybody's already written stories before us and will continue to long after. Finding little things to hold on to as the listener or the reader — ultimately story is just about going on an adventure and having an experience and hopefully gaining something, or losing something you don't need to carry anymore. And holding on to very specific, strange or memorable details is thrilling to me as a reader.
Kellams: What's also thrilling about reading horror novels is that you can be scared, while at the same time you're the observer, you're at a distance. It's safe. You can always close the book and walk away.
Leede: Horror is amazing in that way. It's a safe arena to confront fear and mortality, which are things that we live with all the time.
Kellams: Does that work for the author as well when writing a horror novel?
Leede: Probably. They say you reinforce neural pathways with whatever you kind of do and think and your daily routine. And I spend all day looking at death and fear and the worst possible thing that could happen, so it's probably not healthy in all ways. But I do think there's a catharsis, and there is a letting go. This mortality business we live with is really hard. But I sometimes think the job of the horror author is just to not shy away from it and to say, you know what, maybe there's a way to understand it better. And maybe there's something I can find staring into the dark all day long to bring back for the reader — for people who can't or won't or don't want to do the same — and something that might make all of this a little easier to bear.
Kellams: What really works in Headlights — your other novels as well — is that we're anchored in the real world. There are these supernatural, hideous, unknown elements that surround us as we read, but we're also anchored in the real world, which I think makes the supernatural even scarier.
Leede: Thank you. I do a lot of research, and I had six authenticity readers on this book because I didn't know anything about FBI procedure. I knew a little bit just from books about veteran experience, but I really wanted a good source. And there were a lot of things — systems ecology, there were a lot of things in this book that I needed help with. It was fun getting to hear people's day-to-day routines and what was important to include. I had a few Colorado readers make sure that things logistically made sense because they're on the ground and I can only visit so often. But at the end of the day, it's fiction and it's a 400-page book. I probably got something wrong, but it doesn't matter. It's my made-up world and I'm God in it.
Kellams: You set this book in Denver, in the Denver area, on the Front Range. How do you decide where you're going to set a novel?
Leede: I live on the road right now — I have on and off at different times. I've lived all around America and I'm so fascinated by our landscape, physical landscape, social landscape, political landscape, all of it. We have a lot of issues, of course, but there's a lot to love here, too. There are so many pockets that just fascinate me. I've never been to a state I didn't love. My project is kind of going place by place and trying to paint a portrait of a sort of microcosmic culture within this giant American culture and utilize the topography, the weather, the isms, the inherited wisdom of people. My second book was Midwest, my first book was L.A., and this one is Colorado. I've got nine teed up and they're all new. I want to write about everywhere.
Kellams: Nine teed up. Do you keep notes? Do you have a legal pad? Do you have it on your phone?
Leede: I'm so chaotic. I have notes, tabs. I have emails to myself. I have stuff written down. I've got Google Docs, Word docs, everything. I only have four more in contract right now, but the ideas keep coming. It's just the execution. I want to do all the research, I want to really get on the ground and go to these places, because even things like the way a road turns up against a mountain — you can't really always see these things on maps online. You get there and you see it and you go, oh my gosh, that would totally change the thought pattern of the character in this moment, which might actually change what they do next, which might change the entire plot moving forward. So I love utilizing landscape and landmarks in that way.
Kellams: Music often plays a big part in your novels. You've had playlists before with novels. Will there be one for Headlights?
Leede: There is one for Headlights, and this one's very John Denver heavy, but a lot of outlaw country, too. A lot of Highwaymen. Willie. Waylon. To me, that's what Colorado feels like. I could have gone different directions. I know there are lots of Phish and Deadhead fans in Colorado, but this was kind of where my personal experience with Colorado — I have a lot of family out there — is very Western and very cowboy culture, which folks don't always associate with it. But it's a western town, Denver.
Kellams: With your previous novels, you designated some early proceeds to go to a nonprofit. That will be the same with Headlights?
Leede: Yes. I try to donate a dollar from each hardcover pre-ordered or sold in the first week of pub, just because I'm given that number all at once. Last time it was for Unite Against Book Bans, which made sense with American Rapture. For this one it's Friends of the Front Range Wildlife Refuges, which is a really cool organization. They're affiliated with Rocky Mountain Arsenal and one other park on the Front Range, and they basically do volunteer programs for them but also get folks from the city out there and make it more accessible.
Kellams: I think many of us, when we read horror novels we really enjoy, finish them in a day or two. You want to know what's coming up next. And I think of you — CJ — months reading, going to editors, having people read them for authenticity. It's a long process. It gets in our hands and we're done in 24 to 48 hours. It almost doesn't seem fair.
Leede: Well, and not to get into controversial territory, but obviously with AI on the rise now, it's like you can have a book in your hands in 10 seconds if you want. Probably. Just not written by humans. It's years for me. Headlights took probably four and a half years all told. And it goes through so many drafts and iterations. But these things are such a labor of love. It's almost like the longer it takes, the more life experience and versions of yourself you can put into the book. I really do view my books as offerings to the world. You hope that it just gives something to a reader. With my books, I want people to feel seen. I want people to feel like they have permission to really be themselves. My first book had a pretty poorly behaved main character, but this one's a good guy. He is tortured, though.
Kellams: When you're on the road and you stop in at a café or you're at a bookstore or filling up gas, do you see strangers and think, she could be in the next one, he could be in one of those nine?
Leede: Sometimes, yeah. It's more like I'll hear a phrase. Someone will say something either speaking to me or just sort of in the background somewhere, and it'll stick in my mind and I'll start turning it over and I'll be like, why did that bother me? Or excite me, or stay with me, whatever the feeling is. I'm particularly drawn to Americana roadside kind of locations. I love our sort of bizarro roadside culture here and I like to use those landmarks as much as I can. I was sad I couldn't really incorporate Casa Bonita into this book in a way that felt authentic. I have other stuff in there, but that would have been awesome. The characters seem to kind of sprout from the places for me, as opposed to the other way around.
Kellams: The book is titled Headlights. It hits the shelves June 9. You'll be at the Vault, sponsored by Pearl's Books, on June 22. CJ Leede, congratulations on this book. Can't wait to read the next nine. I hope you come back when those are published.
Leede: Thank you so much and hopefully I get to see you all soon.
Ozarks at Large transcripts are created on a rush deadline and edited for length and clarity. Copy editors utilize AI tools to review work. KUAF does not publish content created by AI. Please reach out to kuafinfo@uark.edu to report an issue. The audio version is the authoritative record of KUAF programming.
