STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We've learned in recent days of a man charged with doing something like spying for China. Thomas Pauken II is accused of working for China without registering as a foreign agent. He's been in custody since February and is due in court on Friday. POLITICO's Josh Gerstein broke this story of a man between two worlds - one of the people who make their living between the United States and China.
JOSH GERSTEIN: He is a American journalist. He describes himself as sort of a geopolitical consultant. He has lived in China for the last decade and a half or so and seems to have operated kind of on the fringes of Republican politics and kind of MAGA politics since Trump came on the scene.
INSKEEP: What is it that the government alleges that he did that was illegal?
GERSTEIN: So the U.S. government is alleging that Pauken acted as an unregistered foreign agent for China. He's not exactly charged with spying or espionage, but he is charged with working pretty much directly for someone who the FBI believes is part of China's spy apparatus, a handler, basically, for the Ministry of State Security in China. The claim is that Pauken was involved in transporting some cellphones and maybe a laptop with encryption technology on it and trying to deliver it to someone else who was vying for a job in the Trump administration.
INSKEEP: There's so many fascinating details in this story, and here is one. You note that the FBI, once they found out about this man, tried to make him a double agent, according to the court filings.
GERSTEIN: Right. So it sounds like after they first intercepted Pauken at the airport when he was coming in from China in January 2025, they sent him on his way. And then, apparently, Pauken returned in February of this year, and that's when things sort of amped up. He had a bunch of meetings in the U.S., and it sounds like he was involved in setting up some type of sting operation against that person who did eventually get some type of job in the Trump administration at a hotel in Washington in February of this year. Exactly what the outcome of that sting operation was is not totally clear. We know that Pauken was arrested soon after happened, and what happened with the person who had the job in the Trump administration isn't described in this court affidavit.
INSKEEP: Are we maybe finding out why he is only accused of failing to register as a lobbyist as opposed to being accused of spying?
GERSTEIN: It could be that maybe he cooperated with the FBI to a degree that they're willing to pursue a lesser charge against him. Pauken's attorney is basically describing this as kind of a paperwork violation - that he didn't file the proper papers with the U.S. government to represent China or to act on their behalf in the U.S. I have to say the kinds of activities they're alleging seem to me to go beyond the kind of lobbying that is normally the kind of thing that you would file a registration over.
INSKEEP: Is it surprising at all that the Trump administration has been willing to pursue this person, given that he does seem to be politically aligned with the president?
GERSTEIN: Well, it's surprising for a couple of reasons. One is, as you mentioned, he certainly seems to be sort of a MAGA personality. When you look at a lot of Pauken's commentary online, it's very, very supportive of the Trump administration. It's also interesting because the Trump administration has not pursued a lot of these foreign influence and foreign agent-type cases. So it's notable that this is one case where they've taken this very seriously both running some kind of sting operation and then arresting this individual after he returned to the U.S. earlier this year.
INSKEEP: Josh Gerstein of POLITICO. Thanks so much.
GERSTEIN: Happy to do it, Steve. Take care. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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