SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Giving advice through columns, books, podcasts has become an industry, like B. J. Leiderman, who does our theme music. But do advice givers actually solve problems? Reporter Justin Kramon put one popular columnist to the test.
JUSTIN KRAMON: R. Eric Thomas writes the daily, nationally syndicated newspaper advice column, Asking Eric. Since he's not a psychologist or a therapist, Thomas takes a humble, light-hearted approach to his craft.
R ERIC THOMAS: I think it makes me better at advice that I have made a lot of mistakes in my life.
KRAMON: He says it's important that he doesn't judge the people who ask him for advice on a huge array of life problems, from forgotten thank-you notes to the deaths of spouses.
THOMAS: My goal is not deciding what's right. My goal is to help people to relate to the other humans in their lives.
KRAMON: In most advice shows and columns, we don't see what happens after the advice is given. So I decided to ask Thomas' advice on a dilemma of my own to find out if it works.
THOMAS: This is unique 'cause most of the time I don't have the opportunity to talk to the person.
KRAMON: Around 15 years ago, I was staying at my in-laws' house, and I borrowed a coat that my wife's brother had left in a closet. He'd moved since then but hadn't taken the coat. I really liked it, and I never returned it. But I always regretted taking it without his permission, and I wanted to make amends. When I tell Thomas my dilemma, he asks if the coat has ever come up between me and my brother-in-law. I acknowledged I avoid wearing it in front of him.
THOMAS: Avoiding wearing in front of him is a guilty person's action.
KRAMON: So he wondered if maybe I felt a little too guilty and if that was really the problem.
THOMAS: I think that you can probably free yourself by getting another narrative in your head.
KRAMON: Thomas did not recommend giving the coat back. His advice was that I should send my brother-in-law a gift card for a store where he can find a coat he likes, then call to apologize and explain the whole ridiculous story behind it.
THOMAS: My suspicion is that he will say, what are you talking about? This is fine. I've never thought about this once.
KRAMON: Was Thomas right? I was nervous about the apology. I thought maybe my brother-in-law would actually be upset about the coat. And he's someone I really like, so I worried that once I told him the story, he might feel differently about me.
So you got my gift card?
BRIAN TRIEU: Yes.
KRAMON: That's my brother-in-law, Brian Trieu, a psychiatry resident in Minnesota.
TRIEU: Yeah.
KRAMON: OK.
TRIEU: Thank you for the gift card, by the way.
KRAMON: You're welcome.
I reminded him of the coat I borrowed.
It was like a brown, suede coat.
TRIEU: Well, I remember it was a cool coat that I liked.
KRAMON: I was a little distressed that he remembered it so quickly and fondly, but I kept on with the plan, explaining the reason for the gift card.
I wanted you to be able to get, like, a coat that you like because I felt bad about it, and it was just kind of like a way to say I'm sorry.
And that's when my brother-in-law surprised me. I explained what happened next to Thomas, the advice columnist, a couple of weeks after the Zoom with my brother-in-law.
I apologized.
And he says, I do not accept your apology because you didn't do anything wrong.
THOMAS: Oh, wow. Oh, wow.
KRAMON: My brother-in-law said the coat never fit him, and he was glad I could use it. Thomas asked how I felt about this result.
I think it 100% worked.
It really did lighten my guilt. Thomas says this illustrates a principle that often guides his columns.
THOMAS: I spend a lot of my time finding new and different ways of saying, you should probably talk to each other.
KRAMON: Talking and listening, Thomas explains, are the heart of his advice.
THOMAS: Good advice is not about being an expert. I have to be empathetic.
KRAMON: And that connection is something people long for, he says, especially in times when the world feels so uncertain.
THOMAS: I think there's such power in listening, and I think it's something that we can all do. My primary goal is giving people more empathy. It really is.
KRAMON: Still, it's always nice to get it right.
THOMAS: Justin, I got to tell you, I'm going to be riding high on this for a long time.
KRAMON: For NPR News, I'm Justin Kramon. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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