Kyle Kellams: This is Ozarks at Large. I'm Kyle Kellams.
There can be a line of thought that studying the humanities leads to a struggle to be employed. Alain-Philippe Durand disagrees, and he has the data to back that up. He's the Dorrance Dean of the College of Humanities at the University of Arizona, and he'll be speaking on the University of Arkansas campus today and tomorrow. His public lecture is tomorrow evening at 5 in Gearhart Hall on the U of A campus. It's titled Humanities = Jobs.
He says people often cite the humanities as sharpening so-called soft skills. But those skills, he says, should be recognized as essential skills.
Alain-Philippe Durand: One good thing about soft skills is that it's a thing and people are talking about it. So I'm, you know, I'm grateful for that, that we are not only talking about the so-called art skills, but that's right. We like to we like to call them essential skills because soft, it makes it sound like, oh, yeah, you know, once you, you know, the easier thing. Or also like when there is a strategic plan, anywhere. And you are talking about what are some of the priorities that we're going to be working on? And so it's almost like presenting it as like, yeah, we're really going to focus on the things that are important. And then, you know, it's nice to have a little bit of like some guy playing the music or somebody saying some poetry or reading a good book to kind of recover for the difficult task that we were doing. So I, you know, me, I like to say no, even for the difficult task, even more so for the difficult task, you need to have those essential skills there. You cannot do space exploration without critical thinking, right?
Kyle Kellams: In your TED Talk, you point out many humanities graduates who are leading corporations, who are leading space explorations. I think there can be sometimes this thought that you have to be an engineer or a mathematician or have a degree like that to go on and lead a Fortune 500 company.
Alain-Philippe Durand: Absolutely. I mean, there is this debate sometimes that, you know, people say, well, you know, college is not just about getting a job afterward or becoming rich or and that's true. But for those people who want to become rich and want to lead big corporations like you were saying, you actually increase your chance of doing that if you do study the humanities. Even better, if you do a double major where you will combine, you know, some of those other. I also, I think I said that too in the TED if I had it my way, you know, double majoring in college would be mandatory, you know. So if you're going to do, like, engineering, then you should do engineering and something in the, in the humanities or the arts to kind of have this combination. I think it's very important.
But even people who have done, you know, I'm the dean, and Mr. and Mrs. Dorrance, who are alumni of our college, has built a, you know, a very successful corporation of real estate. And he was a French major. So, you know, like you said, there are many examples.
Kyle Kellams: You don't go to college to necessarily get rich or famous. But there is this thought in some circles that if you go to college, which costs more than when you and I went to college, that you've got to find a major that will, quote, get you employable or, quote, get you a living wage. And there is some, and again, some circles dismissal of majors that come from humanities colleges.
Alain-Philippe Durand: There are. But the data out there shows the the opposite. You know, and in fact we are on the radio so people cannot see that. But I encourage them to go look on the, the web. We have a billboard that says Humanities equal jobs. Right. And because there are those studies out there. For instance, the National Association of Colleges and Employers. They publish a list, a survey every year where they ask the big corporations and employers in the United States, what are the key attributes that you are looking for in the employees you are hiring this year? And when you look at that list, the things that they really need employees to be able to do, those are the things we teach in the humanities. You know, collaboration, adaptability, communication, critical thinking, intercultural competence. I mean, the list goes on and on. And those things, they are in demand in the job force. You know, 96.4 percent of people with a degree in the humanities are employed. So there is not such a thing as, you know, oh, if you major in the humanities, you'll be unemployed. That's not the right story.
Kyle Kellams: Who needs most convincing of that? Because it sounds like employers understand that. Is it parents of potential college students? Is it students themselves, or is it all of us at large?
Alain-Philippe Durand: Well, I think that a lot of the very often what is presented out there doesn't necessarily show the reality. So in other words, you know, a lot of parents, when they open the newspaper or if they are watching TV and they watch the news, you know, very often they are stories, you know, if some university is thinking about closing or cutting a humanities program, you bet it's going to be reported. But you don't see as many stories about the university that are actually thriving in the humanities and where the students, of course, are being successful. We are not the only one. There are other universities around the country. So I think that the people that need the convincing is that they need to, to see that this is not the only story out there. You know, the thing that, or maybe ask that question, if somebody is asking, is telling you this, say, well, show me some data. Where have you seen that that people are, you know, who major and graduate in the humanities will be unemployed? You know, it's just not true.
What is true, though, where you are. Right. And that's one of the things we are, we are working on with the help of our alumni. I think it's very important for all universities to engage with the alumni. It's exactly that question you are raising. How do we get to the point where those, those employers who are saying, I am, I'm desperate for people who can do creativity, critical thinking and teamwork, right. Where do I find them? Right. And to make sure that they know that, well, they are, they are those students that study the humanities. So working with alumni, we do a lot of that at our university. We, I engage a lot with alumni because we have alumni in any industry you can think of. And working with them, you know, we try to reach out to those HR departments and to all those different areas for them to know that there is such a thing and also to do interviews like I'm doing right now. I really appreciate the opportunity you are giving me to tell that other story, that that is a real story.
Kyle Kellams: You referenced earlier this billboard that is up. It's your backdrop here as we talk on Zoom. And it's a pretty simple billboard. It says Humanities equal sign Jobs. What was the conversation to get that billboard up? Who came up with that? And because it's kind of unusual.
Alain-Philippe Durand: Yeah, so I came, I came up. Well, so this is what happened when I, when I started as dean of the College of Humanities, we were, we quickly decided with the heads and directors to use this approach. We had this vision that, you know, to talk to the general public and for them to understand what's going on with the humanities and what you can get from studying the humanities, we need to change the way we do things. We need to. So we started using what I call this contrarian approach, which is like, you know, often when you talk about the humanities, you have two things. It's like you're not going to get a job. That's what you hear. And there is also that thing where like, well, you know, people who study the humanities, maybe they can be like a teacher or they can work in a museum, which those are very important positions. I mean, I'm a teacher myself. We believe in it. We still deliver it. But there are, there are many other things you can do.
So we decided to use an approach where we really emphasize the skills and competencies that we provide. So if we're going to talk about majoring in French, for instance, yes, you're going to be able to speak French very well and understand French. But that's not all you're going to learn. You're also going to learn those skills that are extremely important and in demand on the job market. So then once we decided that we wanted to start conveying that message and, so I, you know, like I would be driving between Tucson and Phoenix, often I still do. And you have all these billboards right on the freeway. I mean, anywhere in America, you would have this. And I would see those, a lot of billboards about universities, you know, about. And I thought, man, we should, you know, that would be a great way to kind of like make that claim, right, to get the attention. But, you know, on the billboard, I mean, you're on the highway. You cannot just have like a whole paragraph or you need to have something that people are going to recognize right away and that it's going to get their attention. So I was talking with my, on my marketing team, the senior writer who works for the, for my College of Humanities. And I was telling him, you know, I was saying, yeah, you know, that'd be great if we do a billboard. And I was explaining to him what I was trying to do with that thing with the jobs, and he said, well, what about Humanities equal Jobs? And I was like, man, you nailed it. Let's do that. So that's how we ended up doing it.
Kyle Kellams: Has it worked? Have you heard about people who've seen it?
Alain-Philippe Durand: Oh, yes. Yes. So it's no longer there because, you know, it's not cheap. So we did, we did that for six, we had it there for six months by Highway 10. It was a few years ago, and to this day I still get, because when I do presentations, I usually have a slide about it and I talk about it. And yes, you know, sometimes I'll be somewhere and people will say, oh yeah, that's the university that did the billboard. But most importantly, what it did is that we also had our website address on the billboard. And it did, it did attract a lot of curiosity and leads of people that took a look at it because they were like, what is that? Humanities equal Jobs. Right.
Kyle Kellams: I don't know what all of the majors that fall under your College of Humanities, but it could be anthropology or journalism or creative writing, French, Spanish, whatever. And it's great that people who take humanities courses and get those degrees are employable. But it's also, don't let me put words in your mouth, but I think it's also important for society as a whole that we have people studying the humanities for humanities’ sake.
Alain-Philippe Durand: Absolutely. I mean, one example that I often talk about is that, what would be, what would be a world with no humanities and no arts? You know, that's not, that's not the kind of world or society that we would enjoy. Or I don't think we would enjoy being part of. You know, we are a society and a world where there will be no more, you know, movies being produced, writers books, museums that you can visit, you know, debates that you can have. All of those things, they are extremely important. So that's right. It's not just about getting a job and going back to what we were, we were saying earlier, is to be part of a society, part of being part of humankind. And you are better off if you have those values. And you have been kind of wrestling even a little bit with those different perspectives and ideas that just make you a richer human being and person to be part of society. So it's not just when we talk about, you know, the collaborative or being part of a team. It's not just about at work, it's about, you know, being a collaborative and part of a team as a citizen, you know, and as a member of society.
Kyle Kellams: You're coming here as a guest of the Fulbright College of Arts and Sciences. I imagine you find like-minded fellow deans across the country that say, preach on.
Alain-Philippe Durand: Yeah, we, well, there are a lot of deans, you know, around the country. We are, of course, all of us, you know, especially when you are in the, representing the disciplines of the humanities that we face those, those issues. But, you know, again, there are, there are several, there are many places around the country, where the, there are successful stories in the humanities and, that's right. We, we often talk about what are the different things that we are trying, you know, among each other? When I meet with other deans at conferences from around the country. And one of the things that is coming out, you know, that is kind of generally understood and which makes sense is the, you know, you are better off the more collaborative and the more interdisciplinary you are. So, you know, it's very important that, to have those communications and those dialogues with deans from other colleges, but also with the administration. You know, it's very important when there are discussions about strategic planning, for instance, to make sure that the input of the humanities, but also of the arts, the social sciences, all of those areas are also represented. And it's definitely something that we have to be proactive on.
Earlier you mentioned something like when, when you and I, we were students, you know, like the, the previous generation. And that's right. You know, back then, I mean, there was not even when you were in the humanities, there was not really, it was not really a thing to have like a recruitment plan or to have a marketing team or like all of those kind of things. But nowadays, it's really crucial to our disciplines, you know, to be able to tell that story, to be able to explain, including to the general public, to people that may not be familiar with our disciplines.
You know, one of our alumni, Dante Lauretta, he was the principal investigator of the OSIRIS-REx space mission a couple of years ago. And he did, one of his degree was in Japanese. He was a triple major with math and physics as well. And the first time I met him, actually, I was, I went to a talk that he was giving. It was, it was a ceremony organized by the university for the Alumni of the Year, you know, and he gave a talk. And, I mean, the guy does space exploration, right? And I am a humanities person, right? And what really struck me is like, what a great speaker he was, because he was really good at making you, like somebody like me who had no knowledge whatsoever in those type of things, to actually understand what he was talking about, to such a point where I was getting excited listening to him. Right. And I was like, man, you know, you almost feel like, gee, maybe I could study that now, you know, of course you can't. But he was this, he had this great way of making it accessible. Right. And that, that, that was very important to me to see that that's really something that is important for us to do. We need to make it accessible so that people over there, wherever, wherever they are, you know, they can understand, they can have an understanding of what is it that we are talking about without being arrogant or anything like that, to really make it accessible.
Kyle Kellams: This is what you're going to be talking about on campus on Thursday. Also Wednesday, you are going to be talking about French hip hop. I think that's going to be super interesting. I wonder, can you suggest a French hip hop song that we could end this interview with?
Alain-Philippe Durand: Well, yeah, I think the one I would have to suggest probably is one by an artist, a French artist named MC Solaar. MC Solaar. And the one I would suggest, and I'm going to explain why, is called Un Nouveau Western—New Western. It's an older song. MC Solaar, he was one of the first French rappers to become very famous. It's a song from the, I think it's from 1993 or 1994. But the reason I suggest that one is because the first verse of the song is, “The wind blows in Arizona, Arizona.” So, you know, I think it's appropriate to recommend that one.
Kyle Kellams: That's what we'll go out with. Thank you so much for your time. Can't wait for your visit to Fayetteville.
Alain-Philippe Durand: Thank you so much. I really look forward to it and I'm very grateful for the invitation. Thank you.
Kyle Kellams: Alain-Philippe Durand is the Dorrance Dean of the College of Humanities at the University of Arizona. He delivers a public lecture tomorrow evening at 5 in Gearhart Hall on the University of Arkansas campus. We spoke yesterday by Zoom, and as we mentioned, he's also talking to students today about French hip hop. This is Ozarks at Large.
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