This is Ozarks at Large. Every few weeks, we invite Erin Howie, associate professor of exercise science at the University of Arkansas, and Jamie Baum, associate professor in the U of A Department of Food Science and director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the U of A, to our studio for the series we call Balance. During these conversations, we discuss health, exercise and nutrition.
This go-round is: Is seeking health-related information through AI partners like ChatGPT a good idea? Professors Jamie and Erin know about the possibilities AI presents as well as the limitations.
For our latest conversation, I used ChatGPT for the first time, very much as a skeptic, and we decided to ask it about a topic that we've covered before on Balance: intermittent fasting.
“So I think one thing also is, when you're learning how to use tools like this for personal questions, they're not medical doctors. This comes back to things we've talked about before, where you still have to fact-check because they're pulling things from the internet and not necessarily scientific literature. Over time, you have to learn to specify your questions and ask follow-up questions to really tailor and teach your AI who you are.”
That's what I understand: AI gets to know you. And so with repeated sort of experience, it's more personal—sort of like a, I guess in the best of worlds, a concierge for you.
All right. So I asked, “Is intermittent fasting right for me?” And it says to figure out if intermittent fasting, also known as IF, is right for you, you'll need to consider a few personal factors: goals, health status, lifestyle and how your body reacts to fasting. Here’s a breakdown to help you decide.
And it says it might be right for you if your goal is fat loss or better metabolic health, if you prefer structure, if you're not hungry in the morning, if you have a consistent daily routine. So these seem like somewhat generic responses—kind of what we have talked about before.
So if you're willing, go ahead and follow up. Does it ask you a prompt at the end or give you further direction?
Ask yourself: What's my goal?
OK. If you want, I can help you choose a method or design a sample IF schedule based on your goals and lifestyle. Want to dive deeper?
“Yeah.”
The thing says to me, “Tell me a few things. What's your main goal with intermittent fasting?” And the choices are weight loss, muscle gain while staying lean, better focus/energy, improved blood sugar/health, something else. Let's say muscle gain while staying lean.
“OK.”
Where do I say that?
“In the ‘ask anything.”
“Just say “My goal…” Just like you're talking to it. Just say you're having a conversation.”
“One thing I like to do is, when I go down a wormhole like this, at the end I say, “Where did you even get this information and how can I trust you?”
So it's scrubbing other sources, right? That's what it does.
“I call it like a cohesive Google search. I don't know what you would call it, Erin, but I think it's…”
“What you would put into Google and have to click through maybe 10 or 15 sites to sort of make your story. Theoretically, it puts it all together. But it has been known to make up scientific references.”
“It hallucinates.”
“It hallucinates. And they just came out with a statement that they don't think hallucinations are ever going to go away because it's a language model. It’s just looking at words. And so, based on what it finds, it might think that there's a citation out there or a research study that found something based on the probability that it could have happened.”
So then why wouldn't I go to, say, the AMA or something like that and search intermittent fasting?
“That requires a lot more time and knowledge of medical jargon. And you're not going to find it all. And you’ll have to scrub through years of scientific papers.”
“And even now we've only asked three questions and it's already asking you what your specific goals are.”
All right. So I told it “muscle gain while staying lean,” and it says:
Fantastic. This means we want sufficient protein and calories to build muscle, controlled meal timing to support training and recovery, minimal fat gain while bulking.
“So then I think you should prompt it: “Design a plan for me. I'm a male of this age…Did it give you more?”
Yes. It says key principles: limit your calories, prevent post-workout nutrition—prevent post-workout nutrition? That doesn't seem—
“So ask it what it means. “What do you mean by prevent post-workout nutrition?”
Great question. And a really important one for your goal of gaining muscle while staying lean. Post-workout nutrition refers to eating protein and carbs after your training session to stimulate muscle repair and growth, replenish my stored carbs, help recovery and reduce muscle soreness.
Why it matters: after a workout, your muscles are primed to absorb nutrients.
“Wait, but say, “Then why did you say prevent this?”
“Yes.”
Ah, OK. It answered: So why is this a concern with intermittent fasting? If your eating window is too limited and you train outside that window, then you're working out fasted. Not eating after training if your fast continues. Missing out on those critical nutrients.”
So then it gives me an example of a bad setup: fasting from 8 p.m. to noon, workout at 8 but don’t eat until noon.
“Sound familiar, doesn’t it?”
Yes, it does.
“So you could see, though, if you hadn't asked the follow-up clarification, people might be confused by that recommendation.”
Absolutely. Now here's my question about this because I'm still really skeptical about this. Sometimes you don't know what questions to ask. And that's where a professional is much more important, perhaps, than ChatGPT?
“Or at least knowing who to follow up with to get clarity. Or say you get this feedback—knowing how to go on the internet and validate it or find the right kind of resource.”
“And it's also a skill, right? That's how I think about my students in my classes who are young adults. They need to learn how to ask the right questions. So why don't you ask it—what, you normally run in the morning, right?”
Well, I haven't run for a couple of years, but I used to run in the morning. Yes.
“Do you still exercise in the morning?”
I go on long walks with my dog.
“So say, “I normally go for a long walk at this time. I would like to add strength training. What would be a good schedule with intermittent fasting?”
OK. Awesome. Thanks for the details.
“Ooh—peppy chat GPT.”
You walk early at 5:30 a.m. and want to add strength training. Let's build an intermittent fasting plan that fuels muscle growth, keeps you lean and respects your early activity.
I like that—“respects your early activity.”
These are key considerations: you want to build muscle, you want to do intermittent fasting, all these things we know.
Yes.
OK. And here's a recommended plan:
Break your fast earlier, around 8 a.m.
A sample schedule:
5:30: long walk, fasted—totally fine6:30: strength training, still fasted; optional pre-workout if needed8:00: break your fast with a meal high in protein and carbsNoon: full balanced meal3:30–4: light third meal, protein-rich plus light carbs, fats4 p.m.: begin your 16-hour fast
“Ask what it means by “well-balanced meal.””
All right. So I asked about a well-balanced meal. It says a well-balanced meal gives your body a mix of three macronutrients it needs to function well, especially if you're building muscle. And then it gives me an example: protein—chicken, eggs, tofu, Greek yogurt; carbs—rice, oats, sweet potatoes, fruits; healthy fats—olive oil, nuts, seeds, avocado, fatty fish.
“Are there any of those foods that you don't like?”
I like all foods, except—as we've learned—Vegemite. But other than that—
“Why don't you say, “I'm a vegan. How would you change this?””
I love this because now ChatGPT is going to be so confused about me.
“I think you're like a fairy muscle-building vegan that loves long walks.”
Oh, awesome. Thanks for clarifying. Being vegan definitely works with intermittent fasting. You’ve got to be smart about your protein sources. So protein now is tofu, lentils, beans, edamame, chickpeas, soy milk. Carbs: oats, rice, potatoes.
So now it gives me an example of that first meal: tofu, whole-grain toast, avocado, spinach, bell peppers, onions in the scramble.
Meal two: lentils, quinoa, coconut milk, tomatoes, spinach in a curry.
That light meal at 4 p.m.: pea or rice protein powder, banana or berries, peanut butter; add oats or flax for fiber and energy.
So what do you think about what this is saying?
“I think it's definitely a good prompt to get you there. I mean, I actually the other day put in, “I have these five ingredients. Give me a recipe that takes less than 30 minutes.”
“What do you think about that suggestion? Do you think that's realistic if you were vegan?”
I mean, I'm not vegan and it's realistic.
“OK. Because if you didn't like something, you could then suggest, “I need quick meals because I don't have much time to cook.”
Or, “I don't know how to cook.” Let's say that.
“OK”.
“I mean, just see what it says. But what if you don't know how to cook those things?”
Yeah.
“Or you can say, “I don't have access to a gym. How should I incorporate strength training?””
That's what— Ok.
Absolutely—here: references. “Experts back sources that support the advice I’ve given.” That's weird, right? It says “I’ve given.” That's a little unsettling. Have you ever seen 2001: A Space Odyssey?
Yes.
OK.
But here: from the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, 2016, from Schoenfeld and Aragon—I don't know what that is.
“Click on the option it gives you for the link and see if it actually takes you to that article, because that used to be one of the flaws in early use—that it sometimes took you to a bogus reference—”
Check.
OK, I clicked on the link and it says, “Check: This link is safe. This link isn't verified and may contain data from your conversation that will be shared with a third-party site. Make sure you trust this link before proceeding.
“You could also try one of the other ones, but when you actually ask— So it gave you what looked like a legit journal reference.
“And I think sometimes it gives you references from open-access journals that aren't behind a paywall. “
And this is a link that now says Nutrient Timing Revisited: Is There a Post-Exercise Anabolic Window? And this is from BMC.
“OK. So that gave you a legitimate—”
Yeah.
“I find that ChatGPT does a good job of guiding your thought process. And so it doesn't take away the need for critical thinking and evaluating, but it helps streamline. And it gives you suggestions of what are the next questions you should think about.
“So like in the world of nutrition and physical activity, a lot of what it can do is tailor for your specific situation. So like you said, you don't even know where to start with intermittent fasting, but it asks you, “What are your goals?” and gives you some options. And so it can help guide you in that thought process. And even when you get to the end and you ask for references, you can go and look at them yourself and see if they're legitimate or not.”
“And it does learn from your searches, so I do think sometimes the results are going to be biased toward who you are and what you're searching. So you may not get that differing opinion or research.”
“And I know for me, now it knows that I'm a nutrition scientist that studies protein, so sometimes I really have to fine-tune my prompts to get something interesting back or something useful back from ChatGPT. Like if I'm trying to get a creative presentation title. I think I've been getting the same suggestions now for a year, and they're all—like, the more people that use ChatGPT, also I think the less creative it's becoming, at least in my field.”
“Yeah, and it's probably—we're not even using it to its full potential yet. So one of the ways we're exploring to use it: with Exercise is Medicine, we have an exercise referral system. So we get people in, we do a fitness assessment, and then we do motivational interviewing or exercise counseling to help participants set goals and then check in with them a couple times. That's really resource-intensive. We have students that have to meet with them one-on-one.
“But there's some research out there looking at using AI chatbots to do motivational interviewing. And like you said, you do have a positive experience with it. It gives you validation even about your questions. It can prompt behavior change, potentially, if you're asking the right questions and interacting with it in the right way.”
“And I think, you know, especially people who have less access to healthcare or are a little more rural, or as our healthcare model changes or finances change, we may not all be able to afford a personal trainer or a registered dietitian. So I think it's a great way—I mean, there is obviously an environmental cost to using AI—but it is a way to get started and get a background and prompt you or help you on a behavior or lifestyle change.”
I did like that rundown: “If you're a vegan, here are nine or ten suggestions for what would be good for carbs, what would be good for this meal or that.” And it looked trustworthy.
"Yeah. And I think, as a nutrition scientist, I don't think it's saying anything wrong based on what I know about the research. And I think if you even took it one step further, you could say, “I have tofu, brown rice and spinach in my cabinet. Give me a recipe that can meet these nutrition needs,” and it will give you a recipe.”
Have you had conversations with your students about the use of AI and is that a challenge? Because there's a very good chance they have more experience and more knowledge about AI than you might.
"Yes. There's a lot of unknowns. We have not been trained in it. It's a completely different world. And so a lot of us are thinking about what skills students need to be successful in their careers in this time where AI is a tool they’ll have access to. And so how to train them and give them those skills—and not say, “You just can't use it”—but how to make assignments and tasks that actually train those skills. And it's not just “Write an essay about Tolstoy” or whatever. Because ChatGPT can do it in five seconds.”
“Yeah. And I think, though, from a professional point of view now, journals—when you submit manuscripts for peer-review publication, which is our career currency—they do ask you if you used AI and to what extent. But I also now notice when people are using AI from a graduate or research level, because it is a level of generic that is missing the compare-contrast of someone who can really go in and look at figures and write about the literature and make a comprehensive comparison. So I think it's not going anywhere. And I personally love it. And I think it's great for me. I'm terrible at grammar, so it helps me with more impactful sentencing.”
So it's a tool.
“It's a tool, and you have to learn how to use it.
“But I have had instances where I can kind of just tell: “You used AI for this, right?” Like this section is so generic and this section is so specific. It doesn't really have a distinct voice.”
Somewhat soulless, rIght?
“Yeah.”
“Yeah.”
“Thanks for getting me on this.”
“Thanks for being a good sport for the suggestion, Erin.”
Erin Howie is an associate professor of exercise science at the University of Arkansas, and Jamie Baum is an associate professor in the U of A Department of Food Science and director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the U of A. Our conversations about health, nutrition and more are called Balance.
Ozarks at Large transcripts are created on a rush deadline. Copy editors utilize AI tools to review work. KUAF does not publish content created by AI. Please reach out to kuafinfo@uark.edu to report an issue. The audio version is the authoritative record of KUAF programming.
