Kyle Kellams: It's time for year-end lists, and one of our favorite such lists is NPR Books. We love the annual inventory. It compiles fiction, nonfiction, children's books, cookbooks and, well, everything else too. Three hundred eighty-four books made up the list this year, submitted by NPR staffers and trusted critics.
Andrew Limbong, NPR reporter and host of NPR's podcast Book of the Day, helps curate the list. He says for his personal yearly compilation, he's always thinking about what to include.
Andrew Limbong: Because we get, I get books in advance a lot. I'm jotting things down. I've got a couple. I've got my special little—oh, you can't see me here—it's like my little reading diary here. I'm putting it to the mic for audio effect, where when, as I'm thinking about and writing about books, I'm jotting down notes. I'm putting little stars and being like, oh, is this a contender for me for the year-end list? And so there's a running list in my head. But then come, say, October, like September, October, that's when I start thinking.
And the process for me personally, what I end up including on the list, the criteria is mostly like, am I still thinking about it? Like, did I read the book in March, and am I still thinking about it in April? Because I cover a lot of books for work, and there are books I read and then do the piece. Shout out to all those books. I bet they're great, but I just don't think about them. But there are a couple that tend to stick around, and those are the ones I tend to include on the list.
Kellams: It's such an interesting list this year. And of course, very few of us get to read all of them in the calendar year they're released. But I want to ask you about a couple that I have read, including Death of the Author. That was a really good book.
Limbong: Yeah. So that is a sort of sci-fi book, right? I'd say a half-sci-fi book, right, by Nnedi Okorafor. For folks who haven't read it, it's about a writer who gets super famous by writing a sci-fi book about sentient AI and aliens. And half of the book is a novel about the author who gets super famous, and the other half of the book is the actual novel that she wrote. I thought it was interesting as someone who covers a lot of writers. I thought the interplay between the writer and her fandom was interesting. What did you think of it?
Kellams: Yeah. What I loved about it is that it wasn't at all what I was expecting. I try not to read the jackets too much once I've decided to pick one up. I don't want to read the… And it took me just a little bit to figure out what was going on, and then I was along for the ride.
Limbong: Yeah, there is a little bit of a learning curve to the book. But yeah, I agree. Once you're in it, you're sort of in it.
Kellams: All right. There's a nonfiction book that sounds interesting, but I'm scared to read. And it is A Marriage at Sea. So this is a book about a couple that decide to do that sort of escapist fantasy. They go out on the ocean onto the Pacific. There's tragedy. They get on a raft. The wife doesn't know how to swim. That's where I stopped learning about this book. Tell me why I should read it. Because it sounds scary as hell.
Limbong: Well, it's a novel by Sophie—it's, it's—sorry. It's a nonfiction book by Sophie Elmhirst, and I think the thrill of it is one thing. But I think what the adventure focuses on is what a marriage can handle, especially during this time where I feel like a lot of us are traveling. And I know travel can be stressful. We're all being like, oh, did you pack the thing? Did you bring the thing? I forgot the baby monitor. And it could really put a strain on your marriage. Oh, the flight's late, blah blah blah. And then you think about, like, we could be on a raft in the Pacific together, right?
Kellams: With no food.
Limbong: With no food. Things could be a lot worse than having to stay at a La Quinta.
Kellams: Is that part of the joy of reading, knowing that? Does it help—can a book, whether it's fiction or nonfiction, help you experience more gratitude in your life?
Limbong: Yes. Yes. It's so funny that you say that. I was looking through my list and talking about my personal picks this year with my friend, and I noticed that a lot of them, a lot of the picks, were novels about approaching middle age and feeling weird about it. A lot of them were like, oh, I'm in a long-term relationship and this is rough. Or it's like, oh man, what is it like to have your long-term friendship be fractured? And it doesn't take Freud to figure out where my head's at these days.
Kellams: Well, going from middle age to young age, you've got a couple of books that are aimed at children. What resonates with you as a good children's book?
Limbong: Oh, ever since I had a kid and started reading to her a lot—and anyone who knows who has a toddler knows that they like reading the same book over and over and over again—I've gotten so picky about my kids’ books, about what she's allowed to read. Because if she loves something and I hate it, I'm just like, oh, I'm going to be stuck reading this for the next hour. I think art is a big deal. And wonder. And I like books that aren't didactic. I think there are a lot of kids’ books that try to teach a very obvious lesson, and I find that to be sometimes a bit grating. And I like it when kids’ books are a little bit more complicated, a little bit more gray, a little bit more ambiguous about its meaning.
One of the kids’ books on our list is called Island Storm. It's written by Brian Floca and illustrated by Sydney Smith. And it's about these kids—simply enough—these two kids, there's a storm outside and they decide to go for a walk around the neighborhood. And it's about exploring limits. It's about your boundaries. It's about danger. And it's about feeling safe. There's no real… I don't see any, like, there may be lessons in it, but I think you can interpret it in different ways. And that's the fun thing about kids’ books. I've noticed that sometimes I'll ask my kid, hey, what do you think this character is feeling right now? And the answer would be different on a Tuesday than on Thursday. And I find that kind of the best part about reading.
Kellams: Of course, the list we're talking about is books aimed or released in this calendar year. I want to also ask you about the podcast The Books We Loved, that you have discussions about, books maybe you're revisiting. And for our listeners here in Arkansas, got to remind them that you spent nearly 40 minutes talking about Charles Portis and True Grit, which is—Charles Portis, a local hero, graduate of the University of Arkansas. Fort Smith still celebrates True Grit. What do you enjoy about you and a couple of colleagues talking about a book that maybe one of you read first 40 years ago and a couple of you are reading for the first time?
Limbong: I think it's an interesting way to look at how much a book can change in its reception depending on when you read it. I think—so, this is my first time reading True Grit. I had seen the Coen brothers movie when it came out, but this is my first time reading it. And to be honest, I thought it was fine. I thought it was okay. But, you know, I read all these people who loved it and loved it and loved it, and I was like, I don't know what all the fuss is about. And then I talked to my colleague Michelle Martin, who hosts Morning Edition, and she talked about reading it as a kid. And I think I underrated how important it was to have a young girl at the center of this narrative. Me in 2025 you're like, oh, books starring women are a dime a dozen. They're all over the place. I just don't think I was really thinking about what it meant back then, like when it was first written, to have this violent, gritty revenge story centered on a teenage girl. It's incredible stuff.
Kellams: Finally, we all—you and I and many of the people who are listening—love to read, and there's value in that. What's also the value when you meet someone on a train or at a party and you can talk about the same book? I mean, I don't know if that happens as much as it used to, but there can be a real joy.
Limbong: Yeah. Yeah. I think when—you know, there's a thing where you see someone. I grew up in New York City, right? And a train book, the book that you're reading on the train, on your commute, was always a big deal. And when you're on public transportation and you see someone reading a book that you read, there's always a—you don't got to be weird about it—but you can do one of these looks, like, yo, what are you up to? Where are you at? And I think the fun thing about this Books We Love list is—it's 380 books. I'm not recommending all of them, but there are some books that I liked that I didn't write up, and I can peek around and be like, oh, my colleague wrote that one. I gotta go hit him up and be like, that was a crazy book, right? And it's just a fun experience.”
Kellams: All right. Where can we listen to the podcast? Where can we find the list?
Limbong: You can find the podcast at NPR's Book of the Day podcast feed, and that's available wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find the list here.
Kellams: Is there a book you read some time ago that you would like to revisit in 2026?
Limbong: Oh. Hmm. And if not—I've been thinking a lot about my relationship with Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. That's a classic sci-fi novel that I really was in love with in junior high. And I am curious to see what my relationship to it is like now.
Kellams: All right, well, maybe in 12 months I'll find out if you were able to revisit it.
Limbong: Yeah. Yeah. We'll see.
Kellams: Andrew, thanks so much for your time.
Limbong: All right. Thanks a lot, man.
The conversation with Andrew Limbong, a host of NPR's Book of the Day podcast, was recorded in late November. Again, you can find the 2025 NPR Books We Love List here.
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