Matthew Moore: On Jan. 9, the University of Arkansas School of Law announced they had hired a new dean, Emily Suski. Five days later, the University of Arkansas announced it was rescinding its offer to Suski, citing feedback from external stakeholders.
Republican lawmakers Sen. Bart Hester and Sen. Dan Sullivan have both confirmed with the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette that they reached out directly to the university after the decision was announced. Both Hester and Sullivan pointed to Suski signing on to a friend of the court brief challenging laws prohibiting transgender athletes in school sports.
Denise Garner is a state representative for District 20, covering parts of Fayetteville. She says she first heard about the news about Suski’s offer being rescinded on Facebook.
Denise Garner: And really couldn't believe it, except I knew the poster was credible.
Moore: What do you see as the short-term and the long-term implications of a decision like this?
Garner: Well, I think the implications are chilling. Faculty morale, student and faculty trust. I think, you know, long term, when students and faculty can't trust that political interference will keep academic freedom from happening or making sure that their freedoms are secure, when that happens, we're not going to get good faculty. Our students are going to go elsewhere. And in the long term, that not only affects the universities, but it also affects our workforce and our economic development and our research. All of those things will be devastated, I think, by this decision.
Moore: On social media over the weekend, you laid out a few proposals that you think can and should happen when it comes to hiring policies for state and university positions. Let’s go through some of those if we can, real quick. The first one is, you said that the Legislature should pursue independent third-party review of how the hiring process unfolded, specifically in this instance. Tell me more in detail what you have in mind.
Garner: Yeah. Well, you know, I'd love to have an independent group actually do kind of an audit of the process, how it happened, when it happened. Again, where the interference came from, politicos, and how that decision was made and who made it. Again, not to place blame at this point. I want to know how we can manage to keep political ideology out of the mission and vision of the university system.
Moore: You're also urging the University of Arkansas system to adopt a clear and uncompromising policy that shields academic leadership from political retaliation. What does that look like for you?
Garner: Right. And I don't think that's anything radical. I mean, we should have legal ramifications, but we shouldn't have to go to court for that. And if it takes policy to codify that policy, then that to me is what it looks like. We've got to protect freedom of speech and academic freedom.
Moore: You suggest a prohibition of retaliatory funding threats to public institutions as well. And a lot of this comes from this idea that we've seen reporting and ideas that perhaps some senators made innuendos, if you will, that if Emily Suski went on to become the dean of the law school, then they would reconsider how much funding is going to the university.
Garner: Right. And it's not the first time. It's not the first time it's happened. So we've held the U of A budget several times over a variety of issues. And that just puts the university in an untenable position. Leadership has to weigh the ramifications of doing what is best for the university against potential funding to keep the system going, to keep the programs going, to keep the students at a tuition level that’s doable to most families in Arkansas. So it’s a lose-lose situation for the university and university leadership. And I hate that. No administrator should, or no faculty member, nobody should be in that position where they have to determine whether to keep the program open or to stand up for their rights.
Moore: And this isn't just a university thing either. We're seeing this with public media, too, in Arkansas.
Garner: Absolutely, absolutely. Any state-funded program. And so I think that's why it's so important for your listeners and for everybody I talk to to understand that it is not just one person or one hire or even one university. It is a problem across the state and nobody is safe. And so if we allow the ideology of a small group of politicians to make decisions that are impacting the rest of the state, then we're not governing for the people. We're governing for the power. And so I think everybody needs to pay attention to what's going on.
Moore: Lastly, you're pushing for the university system to have a policy in place that triggers an automatic review if an offer is rescinded like it is in this situation.
Garner: Right. And, you know, obviously that's an internal issue. But I would hope that at some point they would take a look at what happened and make sure that we're not doing something that is not happening across the board. It's not keeping folks from applying here, from making sure that political ideology is not part of the mix. It's supposed to be a mission and capability, and that's what we need to be looking for in our personnel.
Moore: I have heard from faculty and professors here at the university, I'm sure you have as well over the last week or so, who are nervous. They're in the midst of trying to hire other associate professors, in the midst of trying to hire faculty. And they are concerned that this sort of action, taken by a handful of legislators, is going to keep people from applying for these positions. Have you heard that?
Garner: Of course it will. And we've had that happen. We have had candidates come up on search committees. And I know what it takes, and it's years in the making. You spend a whole lot of time vetting these candidates. And so it's a big process and it's an intense process, and it's one that everybody on the committees takes very, very seriously.
And when you spend that much time and get the best candidate here, and then they come to your city or they come to your state and feel like they can't live here for some reason, then it's incredibly disheartening. And when the faculty feels like we don't have their backs, then why would they come here? And so it's extremely difficult to recruit students or faculty. One of the big things, I think, is that we have to regain the trust of alumni and friends of the university. And I think that's going to take some hard work.
Moore: I want to end here by talking about a letter to the editor that was in Sunday’s Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. It came from Randall Woods, who is a longtime professor, longtime stalwart, really, of the history department at the University of Arkansas. I'm going to read his letter for us, and then we can talk about your thoughts on it.
He says, ‘It has been my privilege to serve the University of Arkansas as a teacher, author, and administrator for the past 54 years. The president and chancellor, under pressure from the governor and state legislature, have decided to cancel the appointment of Emily Suski as the new dean of the law school. Their cave-in to anti-intellectualism that is a hallmark of MAGA marks an all-time low in the history of the institution.
‘The candidate was guilty of holding an opinion contrary to the political powers of the state, and for being a member of a particular political party. The university is either a place for open conversation and the uninhibited exchange of ideas, or it is not. If this gross political interference in a legitimate and scrupulous search process is allowed to stand, we can no longer call ourselves a university, and those who would support this interference can no longer call themselves Razorbacks.’”
Garner: Randall’s a great friend and I adore him. And he is so smart and so eloquent. I understand his feelings. And I really, in my role, feel like I have got to look forward and try to figure out solutions to these issues and let the university and the system determine internally how to go forward on some of the things that he's talking about. I do think that it's a huge issue. I do, in all fairness, think that the decision was extremely difficult. And whether I agree or I don't agree, it's an untenable position. And again, no faculty, no administrator ought to have to be in that position.
Moore: He says, “If this gross political interference in a legitimate and scrupulous search process is allowed to stand, we can no longer call ourselves a university.” Do you agree with that idea?
Garner: I think the long-term effects of allowing political intervention is exactly that. We won't have a university that we care about. We won't have a university that we want our kids to attend. We won't have a university that any faculty members want to join. So I think we have got to keep it from happening again, and we've got to do whatever we can to gain the trust back of our donors and of our friends, of our attendees, of the potential faculty. And that's what I'm hoping to do.
Moore: What would you say to people who work at the university now who are upset about this decision, but want to stay here?
Garner: Help me. I would say, you know, I think that in our political climate, any legislation that I propose is probably going to be very difficult. But I'm hoping that I may be surprised that we may have some folks on both sides of the aisle. This is a nonpartisan issue. It is an absolutely nonpartisan issue. It's not left or right. It's right or wrong. And it is absolutely wrong for politicians to insert their ideology into the academic setting.
And so I'm hoping that we'll get more support. I'm hoping that the other universities will help. They're in just as much danger as anyone else, and really any state institution, because it's a problem for everyone. And just because they're coming after the University of Arkansas right now doesn't mean that they won't be coming after anyone else, any of our state organizations later. And so we've got to respect freedom of speech. We've got to respect academic freedom. And there are times when I don't like that, but I do it anyway because it's so important. And the credibility and the trust of our institution is at stake.
Moore: Anything I missed, anything to make sure we touch on here?
Garner: I'll end with this statement, which I've used quite a bit, but I think in the 50 years that we've been here, Arkansas has always been strongest when we invest in people, protect fairness and lead with integrity. And I just hope with all my heart that we're willing to do that right now, because this is our moment. And I think it's a point in time that we're going to be remembered.
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