The Arkansas State Legislature reconvenes on April 8 for their fiscal session. Items like Education Freedom Accounts and funding a new prison in Franklin County are top of mind for elected officials, and that includes Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders. She recently sat down with Roby Brock from our partner Talk Business & Politics to discuss the upcoming session.
Sanders says there are a lot of different elements of the LEARNS Act that she's seeing work.
Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders: I think one of the best ways to illustrate is to tell you about a school that I went to just a couple of weeks ago, not far from where we're sitting right now — Jacksonville, Arkansas. Murrell Taylor Elementary. It was an F-rated school three years ago, and now it's a B-rated school. And their kids are doing amazing. To walk into a classroom — a third grade classroom — see a teacher asking questions about phonics, asking questions about math, and every single hand in the room goes up. That, unfortunately, is not the standard, but it's starting to be. And because of LEARNS, the principal, the teachers, the students — all will tell you that because of the changes that came about through LEARNS, that's why their school is a B now and not an F. And that's amazing to see. We want to see that continue to happen in schools all over the state. That is a school where 63% of their students are low-income students, and this is a school that has continually struggled. So if it can happen there, it can happen anywhere. And that's what we want to see. That's what we want to continue to invest in. And I'm really proud of the progress that we've made and what I think it's going to mean for the state long term.
Roby Brock: You've asked for about another $194 million — if my memory is correct — for the Education Freedom Accounts. There's been some pushback on that, because that price tag is starting to get higher as you see more and more people utilize the program. Do you think that's a sustainable trajectory to keep adding and adding to it?
Sanders: I think it's a success story. The fact that we have more kids that are taking advantage and getting the education they need and that they deserve — that's a good thing. We shouldn't shy away from that. We spend almost over $2 billion on public education in the state of Arkansas, and now we're spending a little over $300 million on Education Freedom Accounts. The comparison is night and day. But the real story here is that we are providing opportunity so that every single kid in our state has access and the ability to learn. That's a good thing. Each one of your kids learns differently, needs different things. We shouldn't expect our state to have a one-size-fits-all system. We need to provide as many pathways as possible so that every kid in our state has those opportunities. And I'm glad that more and more families are taking advantage of them. When you talk to these kids, when you talk to these parents that are participating in Education Freedom Accounts, they'll tell you how life-changing it is. And for us to know that more than 40,000 students' lives are getting changed for the better — that's a good thing. That's something I'm proud of, and I think it's something we should continue to invest in.
Brock: But if that price tag continues to climb — and it could, if more people continue to participate — do you think it's just that the state has to make it a priority, or do you think there is some sort of limit at some point where you say, we can't spend more on this than we are, so we'll have to reduce the amount that goes out?
Sanders: Things balance out some in terms of dollars truly following the student. So I don't have any concerns about the sustainability of the program. What I do have a concern about is not allowing every kid to have opportunity, and this does that. And I don't think we can walk away from that.
Brock: I did not see any money earmarked for a prison in Franklin County in this budget that you've submitted. Where does that stand funding-wise right now, and what is your expectation for the session on that?
Sanders: We're going to continue to look for every opportunity possible. While I think education continues to be a top fundamental responsibility for government, I also think public safety is one of the most important tasks that we have. I'm going to continue to look for every single thing I can to increase public safety and make our communities across Arkansas stronger and safer. And that includes expanding capacity. We've been able to do that with existing space — we've added about 1,500 beds. But the real thing remains that we haven't built a prison in over 25 years. And if we continue to wait another 25 years, the cost goes up, and frankly so does our crime. I don't think that we should allow that to happen. I want to work with this legislature to get to a solution. I still think Franklin County is the best option available, and we're going to continue to push to expand capacity because we know it's something that we need here in the state.
Brock: The politics didn't change much after this last election cycle. When you look at who won the primary races, who's likely to be back in the state legislature, you still don't have 75% in the Arkansas Senate to get more funding through. How do you change that dynamic?
Sanders: I think some of that falls on the legislature. They have to decide if they want to get serious about addressing the public safety concerns that we have here in the state. Roby, if you look at the numbers, we have over 2,000 people in our county jails that should be in our state facilities. And I want to explain the difference, because some people are like, well, why does it matter? If somebody is in a county jail versus a state prison, they're receiving no training, they're receiving no rehabilitation programming — they are simply locked up and the keys thrown away. And we know that if that is the standard we're setting, there is a huge likelihood those people are coming right back into the system. We've created a terrible revolving door. In a state facility, we can provide rehabilitative services, we can provide workforce training, we can help break that cycle so that when those individuals leave, they're not coming right back in. We have over 176,000 warrants that we're not even pursuing in the state of Arkansas because we have no place to put those people. That should not be the case. We have to expand capacity. We have to do a better job of breaking the revolving door in our prison system, and this is one of the key things that we need in order to do it.
Brock: 176,000 new beds maybe. I'm just kidding.
Sanders: Oh, definitely. Definitely don't think we need that much.
Brock: You watched what happened with Arkansas PBS and the commission up there about a little over a week ago. The $2.5 million in this budget is not going to be hard to find to fund PBS, or Arkansas TV, as it's now called. Do you think that's something the legislature should look to fund?
Sanders: I think that there is a great resource in Arkansas TV, but I think it has to be reimagined. And I think that's what they have been able to do. I have confidence in Carlton Wing and his ability. You've known him a long time. This is his background, this is his life's passion, and he really wants to help lead us into a space in this century. We are operating with a setup, a budget and technology structured from something that started back in the seventies. We have to change, we have to modernize. And I think they're on a path to do that.
Brock: So you don't advocate for the state making up the funding difference that's out there through state dollars?
Sanders: I think we can do this in a different way. And if we can, that's what I'd love to see.
Brock: You mentioned tax cuts earlier. What do you want to see on the tax cut front?
Sanders: So far we've already been able to lower our state income tax by 20 percent. That's something that I think is incredible over the course of only three years. At the end of the day, we want to get down to zero. So we're going to continue to chip away until we phase out the state income tax completely, and I think we're on track. Some of that will be in negotiation with the legislature. But to do another significant tax cut and simplify the code at the end of this fiscal session —
Brock: Will you throw a number out there in your state of the state speech to the legislature?
Sanders: Still working on the draft of that, so we'll see. I can't break all the news here with you today.
Brock: At least give me a range of what that tax cut looks like.
Sanders: Some of that again will depend on the willingness of the legislature, how far they want to go. And it's not just about the cut — I think there's another big piece of this, of simplifying the tax code so that we're setting ourselves up for a long-term path of getting to zero. I think that's something we're going to see in this session.
Brock: In the brackets?
Sanders: Yes.
Brock: All right. There's a $334 million projected budget surplus right now. You're not going to do tax cuts out of the surplus — that would be fiscally irresponsible. What do you want to see the surplus funds used for?
Sanders: I think one of the things that the surplus shows is that tax cuts are working. We're continuing to cut taxes, and yet our state has the money that we need to invest in things that matter, like education, like public safety, like the pay plan. I'm hopeful that that gives our legislature the confidence to do a big tax cut. But you're right — we shouldn't use one-time money for long-term projects, and that's what a tax cut would be. Having a sustainable economy is what allows us to do that. And the proof, that no matter the fact that we've continued to cut taxes we have a surplus — I think that's what puts us on a good glide path.
Brock: I'm not sure I heard any specifics of what you want to see with the surplus. Just so I'll know one thing to watch for —
Sanders: There are a handful of one-time funding projects that I think we can spend and invest money in, but I don't think it is a good use of dollars to invest one-time money in long-term projects. I know there are several things that the legislature will come to the table with, and we're in back-and-forth negotiations with them on what those look like. I think one of the big things you can watch for is the Division of Agriculture. That has been an ongoing back-and-forth partnership, both with the state as well as the federal government. And we've been working really closely with Sen. John Boozman, who, as you know, is the chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, on a very big project that we're going to invest pretty significantly in from the state side, as well as with the federal partnership.
That was Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders sitting down with Roby Brock of Talk Business & Politics. You can find more at talkbusiness.net.
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