Matthew Moore: We begin this final Tuesday in July with our friend Andrew DeMillo. He is the editor in chief of the Arkansas Advocate. Andrew, how is July already over?
Andrew DeMillo: Oh, how is July this hot? That's the question.
Moore: Yes, that's a good question as well there too. Coming up in August, we've got the Tontitown Grape Festival that will be celebrating its 127th version of the festival, and it's become a bit of a flashpoint here in the region, especially around immigration. Your reporter Antoinette Grajeda covered this and did a great job on this. Tell us a little bit about the reporting that she's done here.
DeMillo: Yeah. And this is a fascinating story really about a community whose history is really wrapped up in immigration. Tontitown was a community that was founded by Italian immigrants. And it's become, as you said, kind of a flashpoint over the debates and protests over ICE, and the annual Grape Festival is now the focus of a boycott from immigrant advocacy groups who are objecting to the city's participation in a federal immigration enforcement program. And it's really interesting just to see how this is playing out in a town like this, given the history of Tontitown. This is an event that is kind of caught in the middle of this debate right now. The organizers of this event aren't really taking a stand on the city participating in this program. But this is a very high profile event and a way for opponents of this immigration enforcement program to really raise awareness. And it's really kind of stood out on it. And we're really interested in kind of seeing what kind of impact this has, especially in terms of number of people who come up there, in terms of the sales tax revenue that generates for the area up there. And her story is really fascinating, just a lot of history about this community that I think a lot of people in Arkansas may not really know about, just Tontitown and its roots and just kind of the history of Italian immigration in Arkansas. And so yeah, I think it's one of those stories that, we see this playing out in a lot of places around the country right now, but this is very much a uniquely Arkansas debate and story happening right now.
Moore: It's worth acknowledging, and we've reported on this as well a little bit here too, but the Tontitown Grape Festival is not a thing that the city of Tontitown puts together. It's not a thing that the city government is involved in. This is a fundraiser put together by the St. Joseph Catholic Church, which, the festival happens right there on the grounds right there next to the church. If you've been there before, it's very clear that it's sitting right there. Like, you can see the church and go inside the church and get yourself some fried chicken and some spaghetti too.
DeMillo: Yeah. And like you said, it's a fundraiser for the church, and it's a town that, her story really kind of points out just how many reminders there are of the roots of this town and how much it's really depended on immigration and immigrants, and how much of its identity is linked to this. And that's what makes it such an interesting, kind of ironic debate happening right now.
Moore: We're starting to see some feedback around a new data center that's being planned in Clarksville, here in the Arkansas River Valley. A $6.6 billion data center is going in, and we're starting to see some concerns, some encouragement. There's kind of a whole mix of ideas of what this is and could do for the community of Clarksville.
DeMillo: Yeah. And this was another really interesting story. Ainsley Platt went up to Clarksville. And so much of the debate over data centers in Arkansas right now is focused on the Little Rock area, and the fight over proposed moratoriums, and two data centers planned here. But just not that long of a drive away from here, Clarksville, you've got the $6.6 billion data center that has been in the works since 2022. And the debate, it's interesting. It's a lot more nuanced of a debate there, where you're not seeing widespread acceptance or widespread opposition. You're really seeing a community kind of really grapple with trying to understand what this means. And it really reflects how quickly the debate over data centers and over AI has really evolved, and how it's affecting smaller communities that hadn't really thought about these issues before, and are trying to figure out, what are the consequences of it? What are the benefits of it? And Ainsley's story does a really good job of just kind of showing that it's very apparent, this project being there. A lot of areas of town, you see this giant crane, you see the work happening there.
And this is another one of those things where we're seeing fights over data centers play out in so many communities around the country right now. And it's not a black and white issue in some of these communities, because these are communities that want jobs. They want some of the benefits from it, but they are very aware of the consequences, of the concerns about water use, energy use and just quality of life, and kind of wrapped up with just kind of concerns about the consequences of AI in general. And so this is one of those debates that I think needs to be watched very closely, as closely as what we're seeing in bigger cities right now, because I think with the way data center development is happening around the country, you're going to see more Arkansas communities really grappling with this and trying to figure out, are projects like this really worth it?
Moore: I remember in 2023, at the time, I'm sure you were covering this too when you were at the Associated Press, this bill that passed in 2023 to create the Arkansas Data Centers Act. Then I remember talking to Sen. Joshua Bryant, who's based here in Northwest Arkansas. And I remember looking back at the videos of it passing, and I mean, it got zero sort of pushback at all. Back then in 2023, I don't think we really quite understood what a data center really meant at the time. A lot of our conversations then were about the crypto mines and that sort of thing. Looking back on that sort of coverage and what we knew then, what do you wish we kind of had a better understanding of when you think back on that initial 2023 legislation?
DeMillo: Yeah. I think if there had been a lot more discussion from people who were a lot more separated from this, not people who were going to benefit from this financially, I think that would have benefited. And I think this is something that you're seeing happen around the country right now. The dynamics, the politics of this have just shifted so quickly. Right now you see this in the national polling where there's pretty heavy opposition to, people in both parties, more so among Democrats than Republicans, but still pretty opposition and resistance to having data centers in communities right now. And you're kind of seeing the political dialogue on this change as well, where you're seeing Republicans who had embraced this acknowledging these concerns, acknowledging the potential consequences, and trying to kind of balance that out with their still very pro-technology, pro-business rhetoric that they want to keep up right now. And you're seeing that with some Democrats too. You saw Democrats who were also very in favor of embracing technology, embracing kind of this high tech revolution, who are now also kind of grappling with the consequences that this is going to have for some of their communities, and also the pushback they're just facing from voters right now. I think this is an issue that you're going to see playing out through the midterms this year, but even more so in the legislative session next year. I think, we talked about this before, data centers and AI I think are going to be a predominant issue in our legislative session, as well as other states.
Moore: The Arkansas smoking ban just turned 20 years old recently. You've got a column up at the Arkansas Advocate talking about how can we look at this piece of legislation, this ban here, and how can it help us to find common ground on public health once again here in Arkansas?
DeMillo: Yeah. And this was a topic that was kind of close to my heart because the special session where it passed, that was my first special session as a reporter. And it was when they passed all these school funding reforms, they increased the minimum wage. This was a pretty mega session that they had. But the smoking ban is one that really shows a model that I think could be used going forward. You had a Republican governor who clearly was laying the groundwork for a presidential run, wanted to be seen as this voice on health issues, and so took on a smoking ban that previously he had opposed, previous versions of a smoking ban. He had a predominantly Democratic legislature who worked with him on it. And you had a health community that was willing to speak out. And they really worked together to make a pragmatic argument.
It passed by wide margins, which kind of, I think, overshadows the resistance there was at the time. People kind of forget what Arkansas was like 20 years ago, where you'd go to a restaurant, you'd go to a bar, you'd have to wash your clothes immediately, because even if you weren't a smoker, there was smoke everywhere. A lot of workplaces had smoking and smoking break rooms. The newspaper I worked at, the vending machine was in the smoking break room, so your Diet Coke would smell like tobacco. And the culture has just shifted so much, and is because of this ban. But I think it really kind of shows a model of what happens where you get parties willing to work together, people willing to change positions, challenge members of their own party, but most importantly, listening to the health experts and trusting them, which we're seeing less of right now. We're seeing the demonization of health experts and health officials, misinformation being spread. And I think this kind of shows a model that if you have consensus and people willing to make compromises, work together and listen to the experts, you can make a major impact.
Moore: I'm old enough to remember going to a restaurant, and the first thing they ask you when you go to sit, do you want to sit in smoking or non? And it's hard to fathom, like trying to have that conversation with my kids, right? I'm sure, like, I'm trying to imagine you telling Simon that there was a time where you could choose whether you were going to sit in the smoking or non-smoking section of Applebee's.
DeMillo: Yeah. And that's the thing now, where it's just like that just seems so novel and just out of place now. And it really was because of the way this was pushed. And also this was done as kind of a workplace safety issue, and really kind of also a business friendly issue too, of saying, it helps protecting your workers, it helps, but also protecting your customers helps. And I think that's what really helped with it, just making this pragmatic argument. And they were able to overcome pushback from some conservatives, some business owners who had really resisted this over the years.
Moore: Well, you can read all of those stories when you go to ArkansasAdvocate.com. Andrew is the editor in chief there at Arkansas Advocate. Andrew, thank you as always for your time.
DeMillo: Thank you.
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