“We are not forgetting the past. Little Rock has been our past. There's no question about it. But I'm talking about what we need to do for the future.”
Randy Dixon with the David and Barbara Pryor Center for Arkansas Oral and Visual History: Welcome.
Hi, Kyle. This is very timely.
Well, that voice — if you've lived in Arkansas for a while, you know that voice.
Right, but what's funny is that that argument he was making right there sounded very familiar. We're hearing it…
Right now.
Right now.
It was Frank Broyles.
Frank Broyles from 25 years ago. That was in the year 2000. And they were arguing then over games being played at War Memorial Stadium in Little Rock, and we're talking about the football Razorbacks.
They have been playing games in War Memorial, in the middle of Little Rock, for a long time.
1948.
The first event at War Memorial was a Razorback football game.
Yes, it was.
Abilene Christian.
Uh, oh gosh. You got me.
I think it was Abilene Christian.
Good man.
Well, what we heard from Frank Broyles in 2000 was a heightened conversation about how many games — or if there should be games.
Right. They were talking about a 15-year contract for the university to have with War Memorial, which was run by Parks and Tourism.
Mhm.
Still is. And, um, I called it kind of a showdown between central Arkansas and northwest Arkansas — with Frank Broyles representing northwest Arkansas and Warren Stephens, uh, he was fairly new, uh, president of Stephens Inc. at the time — arguing the case to keep more in central Arkansas.
So. Well, let's go ahead and look back at this. Uh, KATV. We carried a large news.
We carried it live.
We carried — we interrupted programming in the afternoon and carried portions of it live. And, uh, so, end of the day newscast. Our reporter Justin Acri — who's still around, you can hear him on 103.7 The Buzz radio — um, has this report.
“The University of Arkansas Board of Trustees, began their meeting with a report from an independent consultant hired by the university. Chuck Neinas ended his presentation the way he began it — by sticking a dagger into the hearts of War Memorial supporters:
‘It is in the best interests of the future of the institution and its football program to declare that Razorback Stadium is, in fact, the true home of the Razorbacks.’
“Neinas says the tradition the university has with War Memorial could potentially impede progress from a revenue standpoint. Neinas says the university would make $19 million per game with all games being played in Fayetteville, $14.8 million with five in Fayetteville and two in Little Rock, and only $13.4 million with four there and three in the capital city.
“He didn’t, however, consider added revenue generated from an expanded War Memorial Stadium, for which plans are in the works. Warren Stephens and the Little Rock contingent urged the trustees to leave three games in Little Rock.
‘We should be cautious in tinkering with what has worked so well for the university and the athletic program.’
“Stephens presented the financial layout for a $45 million expansion that would utilize state turnback funds to repay bonds, and also require raising $20 million privately. Chancellor White and the university presented its position by laying out four main reasons for wanting all the games on campus, including increased retention of students.”
People who didn’t live here then and have moved to Arkansas since may be saying, “Wait, you carried this live?” This was a big deal. This was Arkansas’s religion. The Razorbacks.
Especially with KATV being based in Little Rock and it servicing all of central Arkansas — most of the state, but certainly all of central Arkansas. It was of great, great interest.
And a vote was finally taken.
Well, it was well into the next year. It was February of ’01 when they did finally vote. And, well, Justin Acri was assigned to the story again. We kept him on that beat. And here’s Justin’s report.
“Only one item made the agenda of the University of Arkansas Board of Trustees Friday — the vote to decide where Razorback games should be played in the future. Trustee Bill Clark of Little Rock started things off with the first motion:
‘The primary main points of my proposal is a 15-year contract — nine years of three games in Little Rock, six years of two games.’
“The plan received the support of Trustees Joe Hargrove, Frances Cranford, Tommie Mae Clark and Hopes Ned Pirtle. Those opposing the plan included Stanley Reed, Charles Scharlau, Gary George, Jim Lindsey and Chairman Frank Oldham — who normally doesn't vote, but did because of the importance of the issue. It turns out his vote created a tie, killing Clark’s proposal. Gary George, in turn, presented his own 15-year plan:
‘I think that for the students, more games need to be moved to Fayetteville. That’s the primary issue — of why that campus exists — the students.’
“George’s proposal calls for four seasons with three games at War Memorial and 11 years with only two. After some debate, the proposal passed easily — with Bill Clark casting the lone dissenting vote. Afterward, most involved in the debate that spanned several months seemed relieved.
‘I think that they’ve reached a decision that can unify the state. I know that there’s a happy athletic director, and I know that there’s a happy football coach, that this is over now.’
‘Of course, they pointed out were valid points to have to vote that way. But there’s also valid points that other people had to say.’
‘What we came up with here today I think is a compromise. I think when you have a 10-member board like we do, of highly intelligent people, they have their views. But in the end, we all have to give a little bit. And I think that’s what happened here.’
His reports would air in the news segment of the nightly news. This wasn’t in the sports. This probably led.
And he was a news reporter at the time. But whenever there was a sports-related story — you know.
It was his.
Well, we knew he was interested in sports. And then we ended up making him the weekend sports anchor, uh, with Paul Eells being the weekday sports director. And then Justin went on to start a show on 103.7 The Buzz. Now he’s the general manager. So he runs the No. 1 sports talk radio station in central Arkansas.
So I wanted to know his take on it 25 years later. So I talked to him last week. Uh, and this is what he had to say:
“Well, in my time covering it, certainly a great tradition. And I know in the olden days when it was much harder to get to Fayetteville, people around central Arkansas, south Arkansas, southeast Arkansas, northeast Arkansas were very appreciative of having a game closer to their houses — back when they had to take the Pig Trail to get to Fayetteville for games. And so it made a lot of sense. Not to mention the disparity between the seating was much less then than it is now. So I think from a nostalgia standpoint, it certainly made a lot of sense at the time.
“And when I came to Arkansas in ’98, they were playing multiple games there every year, and I think people looked forward to it. Obviously, the tailgating to this day remains better than it is in northwest Arkansas. And, um, you know, I understand the argument from northwest Arkansas’s perspective is, hey, we want more games on campus. You know, it’s tough on our kids. It’s tougher for our local fans. I understand all that. And from central Arkansas’s perspective, it’s tradition. And people certainly hate to see those — and certainly here in our state. And I understand both sides of the argument.
“I think a lot of it’s financial at this point. Also, the failure to fill up even the smaller stadium — War Memorial — has been an issue. But have the matchups been great? Not so much since LSU left, although they did get a Georgia game, I guess, after that series ended. Um, but for the most part, it’s been lower-level, nonconference Group of Five or FCS opponents and been a tougher sell. But I still look forward to going to those games. And again, if it’s nothing more than the party before, I’m one of the few maybe now that still like to go into the game and watch it there, because there’s not a bad seat in War Memorial Stadium. And it’s still an affordable opportunity — in an era of sports where affordability is not a top priority, it seems.”
You know, it’s so interesting — and you alluded to this earlier. Yeah. You can make arguments for why a football team should play here and they shouldn’t be playing off their campus. This is still — you can hear it in his response — this is still, for some people, a northwest Arkansas versus central Arkansas story.
Oh, and I think it always will be.
Yes.
And I think it goes beyond…
Football.
Sports.
Yes, absolutely.
And, um, you know, there, there — and I’ve lived both places, so I’m not going to take a side. But there is competition.
Nor should you. Stay out of this.
Absolutely. I’m not going to mess with that. Any of it.
I was at a party once in central Arkansas when I was in college. So this is the mid-’80s. Um, and I went with a friend. It was mostly adults. And a spirited conversation turned into a heated debate — turned into a voices-raised argument about football at War Memorial.
Fisticuffs?
No fisticuffs. But it was so interesting — for those of us who are late teens or early 20s, watching adults far older than us really, perhaps, have some misplaced passion about this.
Yeah. Sports and politics.
That’s right.
Religion?
Yes.
And this had it all?
Yes.
Yeah. Absolutely.
You worship at the altar of the Hog.
That’s right. That’s right.
So I wanted to talk to a couple other people too. Now, Steve Sullivan took Paul Eells’s place as sports director at KATV. So he is very much Razorback, very much statewide. But KATV is based in central Arkansas. Steve was nice enough to talk to me while he was on vacation, but I asked him about the controversy and his take on it.
“Yeah, I think it depends a little on this Arkansas State game coming up this year, because I think if that becomes an event and not just a game, and people are screaming for another game and the governor gets behind it, you could potentially see that game played every year. But Sam Pittman would like it played in Fayetteville. So that would be — you know, I think the governor would have the final say. But it would be interesting. I think that would be the only thing that could save the Razorbacks in Little Rock — is that game.
“I was there in ’87, and it was an incredible atmosphere at old Barnhill Arena for an NIT game. I just don’t know if it has the same juice this time around — you know, to get that kind of atmosphere. And you’re not going to have, I don’t think, a highly competitive game. But leading up, I think you’re going to have a pretty good atmosphere, because unlike UAPB or UCA, A-State fans have a definite, definite angst for Arkansas. And they’ve wanted this game. And I think you’ll get that feeling on that Saturday. And I just hope it’s an atmosphere that people say, ‘We want to do it again.’ But outside of that game, I don’t see anything saving the Hogs in Little Rock.”
All right. So we’ve heard from Justin. We’ve heard from Steve. Two central Arkansas guys. You got a northwest Arkansas voice too?
Absolutely. None other than Bo Mattingly, who has been in central Arkansas, but mainly — at least the last couple of decades — in northwest Arkansas. And you can hear him on radio, see him on TV. He’s been…
Has his podcast.
He’s a fixture, in as much as anyone, as far as coverage of the Razorbacks. And so of course I hit him up too.
“I think from a competitive standpoint for the program and the coaches, they would rather play games in Fayetteville — play it on campus. Show your campus when you play games on television. Be able to have home recruiting visits — or official visits, rather — in Fayetteville. And then not have to travel — you know, to add in travel for home games.
“It’s always been a little puzzling to me how you could make an argument for playing games in Little Rock, other than for the benefit of fans. And that’s not all fans — but some fans. And I respect the tradition, understand the tradition, have been to some really incredible moments. And for many years, the environment in Little Rock was better at the games in Little Rock.
“But at the same time, if you’re looking at it from the program’s perspective — what’s going to give you the best chance to win? What’s going to give you the best chance to recruit? What’s going to be the best thing for the program to continue to grow and get better? It’s always been hard for me to make an argument that that would be playing games in Little Rock.
“So I think it comes down to — in the era we live in today, just like a lot of other things — things evolve and change. And I think that’s kind of where we’ve gotten with where the game should be played for the Arkansas Razorbacks when it comes to home games.”
All right. So now we’ve gotten our take.
We’re not taking sides here, right?
No, no.
But we can talk a little about, say, the history?
Yes.
Of War Memorial. And you put me on something. When we were talking last week about the subject of this program, you brought up — well, there was a bowl game there, wasn’t there? Bowl game at War Memorial?
Um-hm.
And you were right. It was in 1956, just before Christmas — Dec. 22, I think, of ’56. And it was called the Aluminum Bowl.
Right.
The once-and-only-played Aluminum Bowl.
The still-reigning champions of the Aluminum Bowl.
Well, no. There wasn’t a champion. So all right, let’s tell the story a little bit.
So it was the first NAIA championship game. And they were trying to find a place to play it. And they thought they had a deal with Shreveport, Louisiana. And before they could do it — or ink the deal — the Louisiana legislature passed a bill that outlawed or banned integrated football.
Little Rock — War Memorial — Arkansas wanted to have that game. And so not only do you have the first bowl game at War Memorial, you have the first integrated football game played in the state.
Huh.
And guess who played?
I remember that it was Montana State.
Uh-huh.
I know way too much about this game. Montana State and someone from Indiana.
St. Joseph’s of Indiana.
There you go.
And it was a horrible game.
Side note: Neither of these teams has a large fan base in Arkansas, let alone the South.
Right. And they aren’t close to Arkansas.
All right.
And so the weather was horrible — rain, rain, mud. And so only 5,000 people showed up for the game. Which — gosh — hopefully doesn’t happen coming up in a few weeks. But there were 33,000 empty seats. Yeah, that ain’t going to happen. But, um, I actually found — I mean, I got obsessed after you told me about this — to find something on the Aluminum Bowl. Now. Oh, let me also throw in there that the reason it was called the Aluminum Bowl —
Yes.
Is that Reynolds Metals — Reynolds Aluminum — and Alcoa were both big industries in Arkansas. And so they pitched in the money to sponsor the bowl. They also paid $25,000 each to have it broadcast on CBS — TV and radio.
Now, here’s the thing. I mean, the Cotton Bowl was big. The Rose Bowl, the Orange Bowl. I could see some executives thinking, we could join that tier.
Yeah.
Didn’t happen though.
No, because it only happened once. And there was a reason it only happened once. But here’s this one little clip, and you’re going to hear the former executive secretary of the NAIA. And his name is A. O. Duer. And, uh, well, here he is in the only play-by-play clip of that game:
“Hi, sports fans of America. The 450 member colleges of the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics is proud to present the first NAIA Football Classic held in the Aluminum Bowl at Little Rock, Arkansas. We of the NAIA are deeply grateful to the literally hundreds of people who gave their full cooperation to the making of this history-making event.”
Even this guy couldn’t get excited.
He sounded really depressed.
Yes. Yeah. You could — I mean, I really had to crank up the gain to hear this guy. Yeah, he was almost drowned out by the background music.
Miss Arkansas was at that game.
Her name was Barbara Banks, and she was wearing a $25,000 dress made out of aluminum.
I just looked it up. $25,000 in 1956 is equivalent to $296,000 today. So they spent —
That’s an expensive tin can to wear.
And then she — It was raining.
I guess it wouldn’t be a tin can.
Yeah. Well, it was raining. And that became an issue too, because they had to cover her up so as not to damage the aluminum dress.
Oh, and the score.The final score…
0 to 0.
OK.
There’s the topper.
Yeah.
Well, there were a lot of great things that happened at War Memorial.
So we haven’t really gone specifically into this. Arkansas plays Arkansas State for the first time ever in football. Play each other. That’s the game in War Memorial this year. So it’s historic in that. And it’s the last one.
It’s more accessible to ASU people.
Right. Right. But I think Petrino said he likes the idea of playing ASU, but wants to play them in Fayetteville.
Well, I mean, if I was a coach, I’d want to play anyone on my home field. Um. But they’re — contractually there are no games left on the schedule.
Right.
So moving forward, we don’t know what’s going to happen.
But I was thinking maybe we could leave — and this was your idea —
Yes it was.
On a high point of War Memorial Stadium. And that was the Miracle on Markham.
Fantastic.
Yeah. Remind everybody what that was.
It was in 2002.
2002. Both teams were very good. Winner of this game was going to go to the SEC Championship game to play Georgia. Side note — to get beaten.
And we were playing badly.
By the boot, right? Against LSU.
And LSU had a late fourth quarter lead. And then Matt Jones —
Well, hey. OK. Let’s hear Paul Eells tell it.
He can do it better.
And then we were in the locker room with Houston Nutt after the game.
All right. We’ll end with that. Randy Dixon is with the David and Barbara Pryor Center for Arkansas Oral and Visual History.
It’s always a pleasure to be here.
Always great to have you here.
I’ll see you next week.
“Now going to the end zone, and it is — complete! Touchdown! Oh my! I can’t believe it — 31 yards to DeCori Birmingham in the back of the end zone. And this game is tied at 20-20. Carlton will kick it. It is on the way and it is up. It is — good!”
“This defense, special teams, played the whole 60 minutes. You don’t ever quit. Fellas, let’s get her a nice shirt. Here’s what I want. You — I really want you to be humble. Listen to me. I want you to be real humble when the reporters come in. Hey guys. That’s a great team, man. Y’all beat a good football team in the Rock. Hey, praise the fans. They would not let you lose. They wouldn’t. They would not let you lose.”
Ozarks at Large transcripts are created on a rush deadline. Copy editors utilize AI tools to review work. KUAF does not publish content created by AI. Please reach out to kuafinfo@uark.edu to report an issue.
